Ep 5: When Life, Love and Possessions are Ephemeral with Dr. Liz Treynor

I had the privilege to interview Dr. Liz Treynor who shares her riveting life story, the wisdom and growth she has gained, and the refreshing way she approaches life now.

You can sign up for one-on-one life planning at Dare to Dream Physician (https://daretodreamphysician.com)

Dr. Liz Treynor will be launching  the Mind Surfer MD podcast in August 2021!

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Transcript

0:00

I am, so privileged to be able to interview Dr. Liz trainer. Hi, thank you so much for agreeing to come to the podcast. When you shared your introduction at the leverage and growth summit that we both attended. your life. Story just really struck me. I just felt like I had to bring you to the podcast and have you tell your story to the listeners? So if you don't mind can you introduce yourself?

LIz 0:33

Oh, thank you. I would be delighted to. I am Liz trainer pathologist, and I had never considered doing a podcast. Let alone being interviewed on one until you Whaley? Introduce me to this concept by asking me to be on your show, which just blew me away and really opened a whole new world of possibilities to me. So I'm very, very grateful to you. I have lived through some interesting things in my well now, 50 years. When I was a fellow at Stanford and as a surgical pathology fellow, Toughest year of my life. I remember I was pregnant and we're smelling the nasty chemicals in the frozen section room. And I said, Oh, I'm definitely going to get cancer. Eight months later, I was diagnosed with lymphoma

1:23

uh,

LIz 1:23

and right after I gave birth to my son. And it just completely rocked my world in the sense that everything that I've been putting on hold my whole life, just to get through medical school had been ripped away from me. I realized the next day isn't guaranteed. Right. It just completely shifted. My priorities. And I as a result of that situation, decided working part-time in community practice was more important to me than slaving away at my desk as an academic, where I was always trying to prove myself. And what I really cared about my patients. Those slides are real people. And when I was diagnosed with lymphoma, A week before that I had diagnosed somebody the exact same age as me with the exact same lymphoma or immediate spinal diffuse, large B classic 30 year old woman, classic demographic. I remember thinking is such an easy diagnosis. Like when can I be interesting? What could they even be mixed cellularity Hodgkin's or something interesting. But the very week after I diagnosed This other young woman, I met her in the support group for hematology patients. So it's like, I've been on both sides of the microscope and it just reminded me how, how important it is, how important what we do is

2:51

um,

LIz 2:52

as pathologists I also really enjoyed meeting these people whom I would never otherwise have a chance to meet. It was a very unique situation. And so luckily got through that. People would ask me how hard was it to go through chemotherapy? Cause I just didn't quit my residency. Cause I. Even with a newborn and being on chemo, I found that I was so much happier being at work because I love what I did and it gave me purpose. And for me, the worst side effect of chemo was depression. There was a very profound depression and I'm prone to depression already. So I remember wishing somebody would murder me so that I would not be. Responsible for my own death and thinking anybody would be a better mother than I was, and I have this two month old newborn thinking anybody would be a better mother and why are they wasting money treating me and, all sorts of crazy things. When the chemo stopped, it was like this black cloud lifted off. And So then radiation was a breeze in comparison. My only tattoo is right here. And you're on your chest. Yes. Cause they line you up Few years later this is, this is such a crazy story, but I feel like I have two husbands. I love my husband. I love my current husband. The first time I went away when our kids were young, I was worried about them not having my maternal influence. So I invited a family friend to stay at the house and she had babysat our kids before and my kids love her. My husband and Christine had a lot in common. And so I knew they would enjoy each other, came back from that week and found out my husband had fallen in love with her. So, wow, world blown apart again, this was how long you cancer years later, six years later. So that was worse than lymphoma for me.

5:02

Um,

LIz 5:03

Because my amazing, wonderful, beautiful, generous kind husband, whom I fell in love with in college. And I still am very much fond of What's so important to me at that time, as a young person, I thought that we were the same person that everything good about me was Ben, because Ben was brilliant. He's so much smarter than I am. He is wicked funny. Whenever I got depressed, he could make me laugh in a way that. Nobody else could. And he had so many talents and I thought without him, I was nothing. And it's so interesting to see what a gift in retrospect it was to have that excruciating period. Really the five, worst years of my life were in that interval basically it was kind of like being born again because. Ben took care of everything for me to the point where I didn't have to wash my cars, he fixed all the light bulbs. He did all the finances. I didn't even deal with the taxes. And when that was lost, it was all on me. And that's when I that's when I grew up, that's when I started realizing, okay, I can do this. I can take care of myself. How old were you then? So that would be. So that was about 36. Like they say the things that cause us the most pain often are what really bring us the most joy in the end. It's so cliche, but it really. Changed my life for the better. And we're much better as friends. We're much more happily married with the people that we are currently married with. Then the other crazy thing in my life. So I was not only losing. My health, which I'd never thought I would lose. Cause I'm a healthy person. I eat well, I'm losing the love of my life at that time, whom I thought I would never lose. While I was going through the divorce, my house was burglarized I lost every single piece of jewelry. I owned every single piece and it's, you know, it's just like, there's nothing. It was like the most. Freeing experience and sense that there's nothing I can hang onto Everything is ephemeral. It was very, very excrutiatingly painful, but liberating in the end, as strange as that may sound. Wow. I'm still actually just thinking about the first incident when you just had your son. Yup. And he was premature. Right. And in retrospect, I had two parasites in my body, a fetus and a 15 pounds tumor At the time I thought I had like a walking pneumonia after Nick was born. Cause I just had this progressive cough and shortness of breath and, stupid doctor prescribed myself. Antibiotics, of course, that didn't work. It was something I'd never imagined possible. I remember reading about nursing before my son was born and reading, there's some situations where women can't nurse and one of them is if they're on chemotherapy and thinking, Oh, well, I don't have to worry about that. That'll never happen to me. And lo and behold weeks later, I couldn't nurse because the chemo and not only that, but my fertility. Was threatened, right. Because the chemo, so I thought I wouldn't even be able to have more kids. But I remember feeling like a pariah in my mother's group because, they're all these, smart, accomplished, perfect breastfeeding women in the circle. And I'm the one who's pouring in the formula because I can't, and I'm like, they are not judging me and I'm wearing a wig. And yeah, it was, it was just a real cause it's. when you're young, you just never think that's going to happen to you, but life is certainly unpredictable. Right. What captivated me and made me feel so much admiration for you is How you had these experiences and, you just made something out of those experiences in a way that really enriched your life more. I'm just amazed by the strength that you have. If you had, told your 20 year old self, 30 years later, this is what happened in your life. I would want to have that future. And in fact, I do think to myself, each decade gets better because I fell in love with my. Current husband when I was 40 and having turned 50, I finally don't care about my hair. And I'm not wearing any makeup anymore. And it's so liberating. So people could really had a hard time saying how can you be so forgiving of, what happened with your husband and, and I'm like, I am so much happier. My kids are happier. I, I love Ben and I will always love Ben and I wanted to have Ben at our wedding. And I knew if I could have the courage to invite. Christine, as well as Ben, that's, where the healing would really begin. And I'm telling you that 180 degrees changed how we feel about each other. I choose to see the good in anything and everything. Cause there's always a way. This is another funny little story. Finally signed the divorce papers. It was two and a half years of agony. Every single time I opened my email, cause it would be another dagger in my heart. Finally sign that off. The next day at work. I get a letter from a lawyer. Open it up. I was getting sued for two weeks of emotional distress or something like that. For a skin biopsy. Which was diagnosed correctly, but the terminology is different. My malpractice insurer,$40,000 to get that$5,000 suit thrown out. It was completely dismissed. Then I found it very ironic when I was reading this letter thinking, you know, the amount of emotional distress you're causing me and. It was so interesting because I thought that I was finally free of lawyers and the very next day I'm in it again, you know what, Wally, I thought I could never survive a lawsuit. I remember being in med school and they said, how many of you are going to practice in California? We all raised our hands. Every single one of you are going to get sued. And I'm like, I couldn't survive if I got sued. But I did survive and it's not the end of the world? It was just another thing that reminded me how strong I am and just again, making the choice to get through things. It's a choice and, so basically I am Bulletproof. I can survive anything. I loved your statements when we had first met and, you introduced yourself, I quote, I know neither my health, nor my relationships, nor my things are guaranteed to last. Right. I love that. When things hurt, that's when we're growing, when my brain hurts, because I'm trying to figure out what this crazy diagnosis is and I'm researching everything. That's my brain growing when my muscles are shaking, cause I'm doing so many squats that I want to die. That's when my muscles are growing and getting stronger. So I try to lean into the sharp points. That is, is such a simple, profound statement that stays with me. Yeah. My favorite poem is by Mary Oliver. Her poetry is just beautiful. And you may have heard what will you do with your one wild and precious life. Poetry that is so moving to me because I am a recovering perfectionist. I think to be a doctor, you have to be a little OCD, right? Yes. You know, it's like knowing 90% wasn't enough. I needed to know a hundred percent because I need to know a hundred percent to be the best doctor I could be. And so I was at the top of my class, I was definitely a gunner. I won every award and medical school. The idea of doing podcasting is a great opportunity for me to be perfectly imperfect. I see the fun in failing and I'm very good at laughing at myself. And I think that makes life a lot more fun too. thank you so much for sharing your life story and the pearls that you've learned that almost sounds too shallow. I mean the person that you've grown as as a result of your life story. The other thing that really moved me when I first heard your story was just how you've used that experience. And now have intentionally designed your life. And I would really love for our listeners to hear a little bit more about that. When I realized I might not be around for what I expected would be retirement someday. Actually, I don't ever want to retire. That's another story. I love what I do. I realized I wanted to be. Involved in my kids' lives when they were still young. And so when I was negotiating for jobs, there were two jobs that I was looking at both asking of course for full time. And I said, you know what? I'd really rather work part-time. And one group, which only had men with wives and said, no, everybody needs to work. Full-time the other group, they all had kids said, we'll make that work. And they got creative and they hired me and another young pathologist mom and I worked three days a week. She works four days a week. The beauty was they have more pathologists to cover call. We have more pathologists to showcases to. It is just better. Everybody's happier. And so I, by asking for what I wanted was able to create the perfect. Work-life balance for myself. So I work three days a week. I have a four day weekend every week. I love it, even though you've been doing that ever since, ever since. So since I finished my training in 2002, so almost 20 years. Wow. I started work on my, the day after my daughter's first birthday and she's turning 20. So it's been almost 19 years. If we want to get technical, but and you don't ever want to retire. I mean, that's, that's amazing. I feel like I'm enjoying it. My retirement now, my group has eight weeks of vacation. So when I try to use every single day again, I know life is short and if there's an opportunity to go somewhere or do something like. You were so kind to reschedule this because opportunity to go to Yosemite next weekend, when we were originally going to have this meeting and there was one room left and somebody who had just been there was in my office, fixing my computer and showed me pictures and said, the waterfalls are amazing. You don't need a permit until may. And if you go to the cancellation list, you might be able to get a room. And I hopped on, there was one room I'm like. I hope Whaley will forgive me. Of course, I was so happy to hear about it. The point is don't wait people, don't wait, get out there and live your lives. And don't wait because you might not have that chance that you thought. My best friend's husband died of a heart attack. Two years ago, just completely rocked. Her and her family's world. And you just don't know. So please enjoy your lives while you can, we're young, we can still hike. We can still move. We can still run. We can still bike. So I, make a point of whenever there is an opportunity to do something, to jump on it, not wait. Don't say you can do that next year, if there's that opportunity take it. Even though my kids are in college now I have found that I really love the work-life balance so much that I don't want to make more money. I don't care about working. Full-time. I do cover my partners when they're on vacation I've always prioritized sleep since I was in high school. My brain just doesn't work. If I don't get enough sleep, I sleep nine hours a night. I prioritize my exercise. I like to say I'm mentally spiced. I alluded to the profound depression I had when I was undergoing chemo. And I have had depression since I was 12 and was recognized and I had suspected this for a long time that I'm really kind of bipolar light. So I'm, I'm like Catherine Zeta Jones and. Mariah Carey. I'm in good company. There are times when I can think clearly and I get a lot of things done and I have a lot of energy and then there are other times where I'm so slow and I'm so low. I think that there's no reason for me to be alive. Right. And my husband has to drag me out of bed because I don't want to live. So I also recognize that I want us to take advantage of the times when I do have the energy and when I am high functioning to experience as much as I can. Yeah. And my therapist said, as I said to her, why can't I be at my best self all the time? It's just, I, I love having this. This energy and this clarity. And she said, well, it's like the phases of the moon. You know, sometimes the moon is full and sometimes the moon is not full. And so it definitely makes me appreciate when I am high functioning, since I know what it's like to not be there. Prozac is my friend. As soon as I saw the cover of scientific American, when I was about 18, I was at Stanford as a freshmen and my parents were subscribers. And I saw it when I came home cover and I brought that scientific American into my therapist. And I said, I need this because my brain is not working. And that has definitely helped my productivity and allowed me to not be afraid of what people think of me. I think there's a lot of unnecessary. Stigma there. And I really would like to be more transparent about it. And it's something that I've been embarrassed about. In fact, it was only when you asked me to be on your podcast, that I realized. If she could do it, maybe I could do it. So first I got the thought that, Oh, maybe I could do it. Found out about the common path to uncommon success, which basically is like a blueprint in how to design your own podcast. Yeah. And he has the reader do the very easy exercise of spending five minutes to write all of your. Passions and five minutes to write all of your areas of expertise. And so at first, my only area of expertise was pathology. And then, and I realize, okay, I know about bipolar. I know about yoga. I'm learning about surfing. Just went to surf camp. It's so much fun. It's very hard. I know about Buddhism. I know about therapy and when I put together. All the things that I was passionate about and all the things that I had experienced with, I realized my mission is to expose people to resources that they might not otherwise have been aware of. Because in my kind of crazy journey I've done acupuncture for 10 years, which I found very helpful for, for depression. I actually saw a hypnotherapist when I was going through the divorce and this is another kind of funny story because she had me write a letter to myself listing all the qualities of my future partner. Which at the time I thought it was like impossible. Like, nobody's gonna love me again. I'm never going to have, another husband who will adore me as much as my husband did and wrote out this page and a half crumpled it up. It was in an old purse that I found when I was cleaning out my closet after I'd married Chuck years, years later, and completely forgotten about it. And my husband. Is every single thing on that list, Wally it's just and I don't know, we will, whatever, but it allowed me to create a vision of what I wanted so that I could find it. And I found Chuck on match.com or I should say the algorithm found him because it's pops up. based on the people you've rated, you might like. He's a radiologist. And his tagline was funny. Like it made me laugh out loud. It was yep. I'm Jewish. Your mother would be so proud. Yeah. Love his sense of humor. And he also said In his first paragraph, my kids are my priority. And if you don't get that, then we're not a fit. And I'm like, cool. My kids are my priority too. And first day at he told me the last three women he'd met on match, had all fallen in love with him within three dates. And so I made a mental note. If I fall in love with him, I'm not going to tell him until 10 days. So I fell in love by the fourth date, but I didn't tell him until the eighth. I said, it's a too soon to tell you, I'm falling in love with you. And he said, I love you too. And I started balling. So we fell in love on the mist trail in Yosemite, which is where we're going next weekend. And when we were there, that was our fourth date, many moons ago. A couple came up to us as we were at the brunch at the Ahwahnee and said, Oh, it's our 47th anniversary. Will you take our picture today? And I said, it's our fourth date? Will you take our picture today too? And so after we exchanged we took each other's pictures, I'm doing the math in my head, but I'm not going to say anything cause I don't want to put any pressure, but he was doing the math in his head and around the hike, he said, we can make it to 47 years. Yeah. So that's that's I knew. Thank you so much for telling us your life story and the life that you've designed currently. This project that you have going, you want to share? So again, thanks to you. I'm also working on a podcast. Mine surfer MD My mission is. To rediscover joy again, to help people find resources. They might not have otherwise been aware of that, you know, as physicians, we are not exposed to and not taught to respect that are actually very, very helpful and empowering. At least in my personal experience. And I know many, many, many others have also found them to be helpful. Yeah. I know for physicians there's a huge stigma, around mental illness, which is why I applaud you for being so open and transparent. At this point if my CEO is going to fire me, I don't care I am who I am and I, I'm not afraid anymore and I'm letting my hair go gray. I know my demographic. I know 50 year old women. I wasn't thinking exclusively positions. I'm thinking anybody who's in pain, whether it's fibromyalgia, they're divorced, new diagnosis of cancer. There's, you know, their child committed, suicide, whatever it is. I want to attract would be really anybody who's hurting. I'm pretty, self-deprecating, I'm pretty open. I like to be silly and fun. I would like to present these interesting accomplished people and an entertaining, warm way and make these options approachable. That's my vision right now. I can definitely feel your energy and your passion. And I can't wait to see this vision come true. Well, thank you because really it started with you Wally. So thank you.