Dare to Dream Physician Travel Podcast

Ep 118: Western Australia and Traveling Every Continent with Dr. Jess

• Dare to Dream Physician • Episode 118

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If you're a world traveler, you're definitely going to want to listen to Dr. Jess talk about her experiences! She's been to 78 countries across all seven continents, and she's a wealth of knowledge when it comes to trip planning and balancing physician life with travel.

Dr. Jess was actually one of my biggest inspirations to start traveling more with my kids, and since she was also recently in Australia, now seemed like the perfect time to have her on the podcast.

In this episode, we talk about:

  • how Dr. Jess first started traveling
  • the details from her amazing trip to Western Australia
  • some of our cultural observations from traveling to Australia
  • Jess' top-5 favorite places to visit in Western Australia
  • Jess' top-5 favorite places to visit in the ENTIRE world.
  • what's next in line for Dr. Jess' travels

I really hope you enjoy this episode and I hope that it inspires you to Dare to Dream!

To see more of Dr. Jess' travels, be sure to check her out at:


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Introduction

Dr. Weili, Host

welcome back to another Episode of the dare to dream physician travel podcast. I am so excited. So excited today. This is going to be so amazing. I have been trying to convince this doctor to get on the podcast and I don't know why, but she. Has waited a long time to say yes, but well, gosh, what can I say about Dr. Jess? So, she's a friend in real life and she is Dr. Jess is like the most adventurous doctor. I know she has this amazing travel portfolio. She's gone everywhere. I mean, if I am thinking about a place in the world and I have questions about it, like the first person I ask is Jess. Hey, Jess, do you have any advice about this? She's amazing. She's living the dream. So we met in residency and it's and yeah, it's, it's, it's been a lot of years. And actually, I have to thank Dr. Jess for helping me. Bring out the adventurous part of myself because it was maybe like 2 years ago when I could not even imagine going anywhere with my kids. I just remember thinking, oh, goodness, I can't, these kids that I can't, I don't want to be in the car with them. I can't imagine going anywhere with them. And this is sort of like, when the pandemic was easing up a little bit, and it was kosher to see people in person finally. And so I remember, talking to Jess and saying. Can we come visit you? I think I kind of basically invited myself to her house.

Dr. Jess, Guest

No, I definitely invited you because of the birds.

Dr. Weili, Host

okay. Okay. weLl, I asked about the birds and I said, oh, you live near this. You live near the wildlife reserve. So I, I sort of invited myself and you're a kind to pick up the cues. And, and I said, Hey, can I, take my three kids too? And I drove, in this crazy snow storm to your house and you were.

Dr. Jess, Guest

was a crazy storm.

Dr. Weili, Host

And you were such a good host and that I told you was the beginning of, when I felt a little bit more courageous to travel with kids and you were, you were part of it. You were my muse. You're, you're the adventurous doctor and you're my muse to try something brave with my kids. Just go on this 3 and a half hour. Trip and I went to your house and you were so nice and we like went places. We did a lot of cool stuff by your house. And yeah, that gave me the, like the courage to keep going and hey, here I am, two years later.

Dr. Jess, Guest

you really took that inspiration and ran with it though. Look at, look at what you've done in two years. I mean, it's incredible.

Dr. Weili, Host

So everybody has to have a friend like Dr. Jess. Basically, you, you get like the inspiration and then, a little bit of courage. And so there we go.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Well, that's, that's really all it takes right is just an idea and a little bit of willingness to see it through.

Dr. Weili, Host

So, first of all, I would love for you to tell us, how did you get started with traveling? Wow

Dr. Jess, Guest

it was really my mom who who got me started she had actually had been telling a story for years where when she was young and single in her twenties her friends were teachers and they had the summer off. And one summer, three of them went to Europe. One of them had a brother who was in the service in Germany. So he bought them a cheap car and they drove all over Europe. And sold the car at the end of the summer, and they had invited my mom, but she had a job with the telephone company, and she felt like it was too good a job to quit so she didn't go, and kind of regretted it her entire life, and I sort of internalized that So, so there was that story kind of lingering in the background and then mom retired and sort of to celebrate. She found one of those things you could get back in the 90s where it was two round trip tickets to London and a hotel for a week for something like 700, which even then was pretty reasonable. And she sort of mentioned it to my dad and he said, Wow, that sounds fantastic. I hope you and Jess have a great time. because he was not interested if there's not a tropical beach and if the flight is more than three hours. It really didn't interest him. So mom and I, and then mom's best friend and her daughter, who was three years older than me, did a girls trip. And we went to all the museums and mom would give me and Leah the map and say, all right, you need to tell us how we're going to get to the British museum today. And so we'd look and we'd find our way on the Metro and, figure out where we were going to have lunch and, and all of that. And it was just so much fun that we went pretty much every summer after that. Until I was in high school. So we just had the best

Dr. Weili, Host

almost like 10 years or like all the way till the end of high school.

Intro to Jess' trip to Western Australia

Dr. Jess, Guest

I think it was seven. I think we went seven, seven years.

Dr. Weili, Host

So you have done really amazing things. And I have been sharing my trip to Australia, which is so funny because right before I went to Australia, you were having this amazing time and another part of Australia. And it's not the 1st time you've been there. It's 1 of your favorite countries. And as someone who has gone to all 7 continents, several times, I thought wow, just things so highly of Australia. It must be a really amazing place so tell us a little bit about this trip. When did you go and how long did you go there? And I want to hear all about Western Australia.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Well, I feel like I need to make a little caveat. I've only been to Antarctica once. So,

Dr. Weili, Host

So that's the only continent where you only went once. Everything else, it's been more than once.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Yeah, so I went to Western Australia. I was there for about six weeks. This I say summer. It was Summer. It was Australian winter. I got there in July and I was there through sort of the middle of August. And. I had planned a road trip and there were some bumps along the way because I was supposed to drive over from the Northern Territories with some friends and then the road we were going to take was flooded. So I had to fly in and there were some adjustments on the fly. But had been to the east coast of Australia, a couple years ago, and it was one of the most amazing trips I'd ever taken. And. Someone had said to me, well, if you like the East Coast, you'd love Western Australia. So I had high expectations to start with, and then I got there and it just blew them out of the water. It was so beautiful just extraordinary landscapes the red cliffs and the bluest oceans and these emerald green forests and white sand beaches. The, the colors were Unreal and everywhere I'd go, the landscape would be different and everywhere I'd go, the landscape would be extraordinary. I could have stayed another 6 weeks if they would let me. It was, it was really just stunning from start to finish. And I didn't do the entire coast of Western Australia. It's, it's a massive state very sparsely populated, but just a, a stunning, stunning place with all different kinds of beauty.

Dr. Weili, Host

I can hear it in the way you talk about it and it's I'm excited and it makes me want to go and it is on my list. And the thing about Australia is. Before I went there, I was almost like, what's the big deal about Australia? Okay, it's the down under, but it's like, they speak English and, it's, it's a developed country. And it was kind of like that when I first got there, I was like, yeah, here's a bridge, here's a road, this is paid. But it's like it takes you a while as you're there and you're like Whoa, I am in a different continent. This is you look at, you look at some of the animals and you're like, yeah, yeah, I'm not in the U. S. This, and, and then, and then as you hear them speak more Australian, and they're like, you have an accent. I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, I have the accent. They're like, you have a really strong U. S. accent.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Yeah, I think, the first experience of foreign ness there for me was just the Australians, because I swear no one on the continent has a resting heart rate above 50. Especially coming from the east coast of the US we are moving fast all the time. Type people and you get there and everyone is just chill, I would be in this crazy line for baggage at the airport and everyone around me is just that should be right, and I know it's a stereotype, but they actually say that and no one else is concerned and I'm like, why, why am I such a stress ball? This is, this is how I should be living. I should invest more in, in this. What happens happens mentality and it takes me about, I don't know, three or four days to really sink into it. But once I get in the headspace, man. It's, it is, it's so relaxing to just say, whatever happens going to happen and I'll deal with it when and if it happens and yeah, I always find that refreshing.

Dr. Weili, Host

Hmm. Yeah and I didn't stop you because you went on this, beautiful description of Western Australia, but I think most people, when they heard the part of your story, we're like, I was there for 6 weeks. I think they kind of like, stop there.

Dr. Jess, Guest

yeah, I quit, so I took a year off from working. I can't even really call it a sabbatical. And in order to do some larger trips while I was in good health and while my mom was in good health, while it was okay for me to be away for months at a time. I figured this was a good window of opportunity which made it possible to do things like. Spend six weeks driving around Western Australia. So I feel very fortunate.

Dr. Weili, Host

What's really funny, though, is you have you have to say oh, I quit. I took some crazy, massive action that was, like, probably not good from my resume. And I did this so I could do this. Whereas I just remember a conversation I had with someone in Australia. This was on Heron Island, which is on the Great Barrier Reef. And I met this man and his wife, maybe they're in their fifties and they live in Queensland and. It's totally normal to have six weeks and, he actually was saying, their kids are grown now, but he's like, yeah, well, my kids were six and eight, we rented a camper van and we travel six weeks across Africa. I'm like, really? And he's like, it's totally normal to do this.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Yeah, definitely. Whereas, now I am signing up for a job and, have to go through everything and they're like, can you please explain all these gaps in your resume? I'm like, can I just cite my Instagram? Is that, is that professionally acceptable? It's not, if anyone was wondering they really. Want you to explain where you are but yeah, it is, it is a much more accepted part of Australian and I think New Zealand as well. The lifestyle that you take these extended breaks and, and a lot of the time you do it with full permission from your job and they're like, yeah, just, come back when you're done in Africa, that kind of thing

Dr. Weili, Host

yes, and, the other thing was, and you probably met, met some of these people when you were studying abroad and traveling, but, when you're in the backpacking circuit in Europe, or, wherever, there were so many Australians that were like, yeah, I'm taking my gap year to

Dr. Jess, Guest

Mm hmm.

Dr. Weili, Host

And, they plan to put this on their resume because it's, it's like a thing. And, It totally makes total sense to us, but culturally, I don't think it's really acceptable in America

Dr. Jess, Guest

Not yet. I'm, I have hopes for Gen Z. I think they're gonna make a lot of changes.

Getting to Western Australia

Dr. Weili, Host

So, okay, you've kind of gave this, broad brush description of why Western Australia is amazing. A few things. First of all, for people who are like. Wow, after hearing that, I don't have six weeks, but you know, I have two weeks. I want to go to Western Australia. How do you even get there? Do you fly into Sydney? Like, where, how do you get there?

Dr. Jess, Guest

Well, I think it probably depends on where you're flying from. I was coming from the East Coast and I had all the time in the world while I was making my plans which is a huge luxury. So when I looked at flights from Boston to, I was planning to fly into Darwin in the Northern Territories because that's where I was meeting up with some friends. I think if you're coming from the East Coast, the easiest thing would be you fly somewhere in the Middle East, maybe change planes and you might be able to get a flight to Perth. I think that's the biggest city in Western Australia, or maybe to Broome, that's a big ish city on the north coast, sort of, but it's a it's going to be a long flight.

Dr. Weili, Host

Well, I talked about in 1 of the episodes from San Francisco and LAX, there's lots of direct flights to, you know, Sydney Melbourne and Brisbane. But I, I didn't actually check about Perth. So that, that was something that I, I don't know if there's a lot of direct flights, but from Brisbane, it's actually really easy to get to Darwin. I did that flight. By the way, flying domestically in Australia was so relaxing.

Dr. Jess, Guest

like everything in Australia, it's just relaxing.

Dr. Weili, Host

chilled. I, I don't even think they checked my ID. I, I honestly, I don't know what they check, but I remember like being ready with all my documents that I usually do for like domestic US flights. And they're like, yeah, I don't need that. And I'm like, what do you need?

Dr. Jess, Guest

I know I was so worried because my luggage was like two kilos more than it should have been. I don't think it was weighed a single time, or if it was they didn't pay attention.

Dr. Weili, Host

So I usually don't check any luggage, but the family members I was traveling with, some of them had like really heavy luggage and they were like, Oh, okay. I should check this. And I was ready to like, I got my credit card out ready to pay, the luggage fee and they're like, what are you doing? The lady at the counter, I'm like, Oh, I was getting ready to pay my baggage fee. And she's we don't have that. So, okay, so, give us, like your top 5 or, whatever, like your Jess's top list for Western Australia, because, not knowing anything about it aside from watching your Instagram photos and videos where can I visit and why?

Jess' top-5 list for Western Australia - #1, Karajini Ntl Park

Dr. Jess, Guest

I would and this is in no particular order and you're going to want to get yourself a map and Mark the places you're interested in because order is very important. So most of the things I think that tourists are interested in tend to be sort of along the coast. So you don't want to be doubling back because much like the US, the distances are vast so with that caveat in mind I was. blown away by Karajini National Park. It's sort of in the north and it's fairly inland, and it's a series of rocky gorges that you can hike down into, and then at the bottom of the gorges they have these incredible rivers and natural swimming pools, and sometimes there are small waterfalls. The colors in the rocks are amazing, reds and almost these purple y colors, and Just really stunning. So I w I would strongly recommend it. There aren't a ton of options for staying there. And it's not terribly close. I think the nearest town is at least 45 minutes to an hour away. So one of my traveling hacks, if you will. So when I got to Australia, and I got my rental car I bought a tent. I bought an air mattress. I bought a sleeping bag. So I could camp in the national parks and at different beaches because it. Save me a lot of money and when you're traveling for six weeks, six weeks of camping versus six weeks of hotels is a big difference financially. And it also kept me closer to the things I was interested in so yeah, Karajini National Park, two big thumbs up, put it on your list.

Dr. Weili, Host

Okay, so you mentioned camping. So, first of all, I, I'm following just as Instagram and all of a sudden I see like this tent and I see this mattress. I'm like, Jess, like, where did you get this? Did you rent this? She's Oh, no, I bought this. So that's brilliant. And the, the other thing I want to know, though, is if you're camping Do they tell you like where you can camp and where you can stay? Are you like staying at the campground? Are you paying money to do that? What, what did that look like?

Dr. Jess, Guest

They have a really well developed system of, they call them caravan parks, so, anywhere I was interested in going, and I was going to a lot of, tourist highlights, pretty much there would be These caravan parks and occasionally you'd be in a national park and there would be a national park campground similar to what we have. And it was very easy, nowadays where everything's online and bookable in advance. It was very simple to even a couple months ahead, be booking campsites and making plans.

Dr. Weili, Host

That's awesome. Okay. That's good to know that that is my nefarious plan. After seeing your Western Australia, I G I'm like, my next time going to Australia, I'm going to rent an RV and drive through Western Australia with my family. So

Dr. Jess, Guest

Mm hmm.

Jess' top-5 list for Western Australia - #2, Broome.

Dr. Weili, Host

But yeah, that's, that's good to know. Okay, so that's number one. What about, what's another one for your Western Australia?

Dr. Jess, Guest

I loved Broome, which is, again, probably the, of the bigger cities, sort of, in the northern part of Western Australia, if that makes sense. It's right on the coast. It's famous for this astonishing beach called Cable Beach where they do the camel rides at sunset if you've ever seen pictures of camels on a beach, it's Cable Beach in Broome.

Dr. Weili, Host

Well, I saw pictures because of you. I mean, this is, this is how I get to see the world.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Yeah, and they have a, they have an airport, but it's a relatively small kind of beach town with lots of Nice cafes and like a farmer's market craft market on the weekends and this stunning beach if you're of the camel riding persuasion, they will put you on a camel which I think would be fun at sunset. The problem is if you do the camel ride, then you can't take pictures of the camels. That was my conundrum. I'm like, well, I guess I have to have to watch the camel ride so I can, I can take photos. But it's also set in this really extraordinary region where. You have this incredible, I mean, the red of this dirt is like nothing I've ever seen. It's this incredible, almost supernatural red, the way, the way it glows in the light right up against this turquoise ocean.

Dr. Weili, Host

That's that's the part. as I see some photos of Western Australia, I'm like, oh, it's like Utah, or like Arizona, but you don't have the turquoise ocean

Dr. Jess, Guest

it's so true. And they have this place. A little bit outside of town. So if you, if you're going, you're going to want a car because you're going to want to go to all these places and

Dr. Weili, Host

to have to get over driving on the right side of the car on the left side of the road.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Which I think in Australia is about as simple as it could possibly be because most of the time you're on highways. There's not a ton of traffic, especially in Western Australia.

Dr. Weili, Host

So where did you get your rental car? Did you get it out of Darwin and then go the whole Western Australia route?

Dr. Jess, Guest

oh, Whaley, I rented so many cars. I rented so many

Dr. Weili, Host

So depending on where you went, okay.

Dr. Jess, Guest

And because I had to change my plans, my initial plans were for a much more streamlined process one way. And then when our Northern Territory plans got scrapped, I had to move everything around and ended up renting something like 4 cars because I had other things locked in, like a lot of stuff. The whale swim that I'm going to talk about. I couldn't give up because I wouldn't be able to get another reservation. So, do as I say, not as I do and plan your trip in a, in a linear fashion where I was like, leapfrogging around. I don't recommend it, but it worked out. Okay.

Dr. Weili, Host

You had six weeks.

Dr. Jess, Guest

And I had, I had time. It is such a luxury to have that kind of time. But yeah, there's this part of Broome called I think it's called Ganthium Point. And it's like this rocky area that sort of thrusts out into the sea and At low tide, well, at high tide, it'll fill up these natural pools. And as the tide goes down, you get these natural bathing pools, um, right on the edge of the ocean. It's just amazing. So I, I highly recommend broom.

Jess' top-5 list for Western Australia - #3, Cape Leveque

Dr. Weili, Host

Wow. I want to go there now. Wow. Okay. So what's what's after that?

Dr. Jess, Guest

after, after Broom, and again, this is not linear, But if you go all the way to the southern coast of Western Australia there is a national park called Cape Leveque, which is probably most famous for this place called Lucky Bay and it is this perfect scoop of a bay with white sand and sand dunes. Sort of Azure water and sometimes the kangaroos hop on the beach. I didn't see them while I was there. So I'm going to have to go back.

Dr. Weili, Host

They're not easy to spot in the wild.

Jess' top-5 list for Western Australia - #4, Ningaloo Reef

Dr. Jess, Guest

do, they do blend in. That's true. And I was there, not at the ideal time of year. Like I said, I was in Western Australia during their winter. So apparently they're, they're more apt to go on the beach in the summer, much as we are, but I did see them in the park, so that was, it's always exciting to see a kangaroo. But again, just stunning natural scenery. Lucky Bay is probably the most famous bay in the park, but there are five or six and they are all again, these, these incredible, it looks like someone took an ice cream scoop and scooped out this perfect little cove and lined it with This soft white powdery sand and then painted the ocean like watercolors. It's it's incredible. Okay, so if that's my number three, I would say my number four would be, again, we're going back up the coast to a place called Ningaloo Reef, which is This amazing concentration of wildlife, and there's a a season where the whale sharks come to swim. And ever since I knew you could swim with whale sharks, I've wanted to do it. And so I knew if I was going to Western Australia, it had to be during whale shark season.

Dr. Weili, Host

Which is when,

Dr. Jess, Guest

I believe it peaks in, like, May, but it can start in April, and it ends whenever the whale sharks leave. I think the boats stop guaranteeing you a sighting or a swim in, See, I was there in July. They might stop guaranteeing it in August, but I still follow a bunch of tour organizations up there and, they were seeing whale sharks into September. So,

Dr. Weili, Host

long period that, most of our summer, most of the American summer

Dr. Jess, Guest

Mm hmm.

Dr. Weili, Host

shark season. Okay. That's fantastic. So, 1st of all, I'm so excited. You're talking about Ningaloo Reef, because. When you go to Australia and I'm like, yep, I'm going to the Great Barrier Reef because that's like the only thing people know about from the Americas and people are like, yeah, but you should go to Ningaloo Reef. They're like, that's the reef to go to. I'm like, what? But that, that's the best kept secret. Like, all Australians know that's the reef to go to.

Dr. Jess, Guest

I think they have an amazing concentration of megafauna. So like big stuff. So they get the whale sharks and I was fortunate to be there sort of towards the end of whale shark season, but at the beginning of humpback season, so I could sit on the beach. And watch humpback whales spouting off the coast. A couple times I was able to follow the park rules and fly my drone at a safe altitude and be able to watch them swimming along from up above. And, they're, they're going up the coast with their calves and.

Dr. Weili, Host

epic. They wouldn't let me do that in Queensland. Most of Eastern Australia was not easy to fly the drone. Like they're like, no, you can't do this, and you can't do this. There's like signs everywhere. The moment you're like, oh, this is a great place to fly your drone. They have a, there's like a sign right in front of you.

Dr. Jess, Guest

There is and I'm sure some of that is just the density of people. Then you'd have drones crashing into each other and then landing on the whale. And that's not good for anybody. But yeah, I didn't do any diving. I know diving is 1 of your passions. But I did do some. pretty great just wade in snorkeling. They have a couple different places along the coast where you just wade in, sort of float with the current and get out at the end of the beach, and then you can walk back up the beach and do it again. And the fish species, the colors and the different kinds of parrotfish were, were awesome.

Dr. Weili, Host

How was the visibility?

Dr. Jess, Guest

It wasn't great. It was very windy while I was there, But if you're there during a calm week, the visibility is supposed to be extraordinary.

Dr. Weili, Host

So, okay, so tell us about, the actual experience that you had, because I saw the pictures, but I want to hear about it.

Dr. Jess, Guest

I was incredibly fortunate, because the first day I went, we had incredible whale mojo. Where there was just this one... Beautiful, chill, kind of cruisy whale shark that was right along the surface and how it works is there's the spotter planes go up, they find the whale you're uh, given a wetsuit you get your fins, you get your, your mask, and I think they had us sort of in two heats, so you were either group one or you were group two, and when it was your boat's turn to swim with the whale shark, they would say, group one, go, and group one would be on the back of the boat, everyone jumps in the water. With a guide who kind of lines you up. And the goal is for you to all be in a parallel line. And then the whale shark cruises along in front of you. And then you swim like hell to try to keep up with it.

Dr. Weili, Host

That's why you have the fins.

Dr. Jess, Guest

And they seem like they're not exerting any effort at all. So you think, Oh, I'm going to be able to keep up with this whale shark. And I mean, unless you're Michael Phelps, you are not keeping up with that whale

Dr. Weili, Host

I'm pretty sure Michael Phelps can't keep up with a whale shark either.

Dr. Jess, Guest

So yes, they all group one, group one goes in, they line up and then they, they'll, the boat will move a little bit further along and group two gets in the water and hopefully the whale shark cruises by you and it's really a striking animal to see. And they are enormous. And again, that first day we had one that was just very relaxed about. Swimming around people. And so I think we swam with that whale something like four times, like it was just doing its thing. And yeah, so, so we got four swims with that one. And then they found us another one and we got two swims with the second one. So you got to be in with the whale shark six times in one trip, which was. Amazing.

Dr. Weili, Host

So how many people were in like each group, cause you're, you're getting ready to sort of line up with as a group.

Dr. Jess, Guest

It's very regulated by some organization in order to minimize impact on the whale sharks. So I think each boat is limited to, I want to say 20 swimmers and you go in groups of 10, something like that. And sometimes there will be other people on the boat who aren't allowed to swim because The swimming spots have all been booked up. So it's, it's a relatively small group. That's actually with you in the water and the shark at the, at the same time.

Dr. Weili, Host

Wow. So who else was in this group? Was it a bunch of 20 year olds? Were there like 80 year olds? I'm so curious who else is out in Western Australia, waiting to swim with whale sharks besides Dr. Jess.

Dr. Jess, Guest

I would say mostly Australians. I think there were a couple tourists from other countries like myself, but the vast majority both days were Australians and one day it was like a boys school group. It was sort of like a, like a school. Camping expedition thing where one group had gone to the ocean and another group, I think, was going on a backpacking trip or something. So,

Dr. Weili, Host

amazing.

Dr. Jess, Guest

I know, right? And ages, I think, are somewhat limited, again, for safety reasons. The youngest kid I think I saw looked to be about eight years old. Yeah, as long as you're fairly comfortable in the water, and you get added buoyancy from the wetsuit I think a lot of people could, could enjoy the experience.

Dr. Weili, Host

That sounds really amazing. And I'm all like, I'm ready to dive in as you're talking about this, but I'm sure some people are listening and they're like, what? This is crazy. And tell us a little bit about, I mean, were you just a strong swimmer? Were you like on the swim team in high school? Like, how, how did you, you

Dr. Jess, Guest

I was in the marching band in high school.

Dr. Weili, Host

So how did you get to this moment of swimming with whale sharks in Western Australia? Like, how, how, how did you get there?

Dr. Jess, Guest

I grew up around a lot of water, New Hampshire is on the ocean, a little bit, 13 miles, and then we have lots of rivers and lakes. So I've been swimming my whole life. And. I've always been pretty confident and comfortable in the water. I'm certainly not the fastest swimmer, but I am an excellent floater. And I've got endurance, I guess. I'm not going to beat anybody in a race, but I'll keep going. So.

Dr. Weili, Host

it. Love it. Yeah, I think that that's something that I feel like is doable Like, I interview a guest on my podcast, who now like swims with whales and dolphins and, she didn't even know how to swim when she first started being in the ocean. She was just wearing like a a life jacket and, that's how she started.

Dr. Jess, Guest

mm hmm. And it's never too late, right? I mean, I think some people think, oh, I've got to this point in my life. If I don't swim now, um, I'll never learn. But, but people do. I

Dr. Weili, Host

just start, start in your bathtub or, or, the local pool. You got this.

Dr. Jess, Guest

So yeah, so Ningaloo Reef and the whale sharks were number four, and then my number five I'm gonna say it was a, it's a national park called Francois Perron, who was, I think, a French explorer that explored Australia in the early days. At some point, I knew this information, but it has flown from my brain. But it was a, a location that I hadn't planned on stopping. I had planned on going to this nearby area called Monkey Maya that's famous for these dolphins that fish the shallows, and there were like two weeks while I was there with incredibly strong winds and they had whipped up such a froth that there wasn't much dolphin activity. So I was looking for other things to do and I was like, well, there's a national park. I should visit. And I haven't planned it because you need sort of four wheel drive and sand driving skills, which I don't have. And. If I had my own car, I don't know, I might have mucked about and got myself in trouble, but I really didn't want to ruin a rental car and get denied service from Hertz. So I found a company in town that would do a tour and was able to jump on a tour of this national park. But again, it was extraordinary landscapes with this beautiful earth and turquoise water. And I just, I just never got sick of looking at the landscapes.

Dr. Weili, Host

Yeah, there's something about the, the colors. I think that's that that was like, the, the story that you kept telling when I looked at your pictures in Western Australia. I'm like, how, how many red against this incredible turquoise aqua hue can we look at and, and not want to go there.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Yeah, it was again, I went with high expectations and it surpassed all of them. I, I can't say enough good things about my Western Australia visit.

Dr. Weili, Host

So, that is amazing, and I am, I definitely have this on my list now, but I, I have to ask you one thing because Because this is, the one thing about Australia, I remember, I didn't know this when I planned the trip to Australia, but my um, 13 year old at the time is like the expert, he like reads all these books about places and he's like, well, you know, in Australia, there's all these poisonous things that could kill you. It's like the most dangerous continent. I'm like, Oh, really? So tell us about that is what did you encounter any dangerous poisonous snakes or, poisonous jellyfish

Dr. Jess, Guest

It wasn't jellyfish season while I was there so,

Dr. Weili, Host

go in the Australian winter. That's that that I didn't encounter much jellyfish either in the Great Barrier Reef in August.

Dr. Jess, Guest

So, so no, no on the jellyfish. I did not see any poisonous snakes, and I kept a lookout because that was one thing I, I really didn't want to have to deal with was navigating the Australian medical system trying to get antivenom. I did see a huntsman spider. It got sort of between, like the screen part of my tent and the rain fly. So I was just sort of keeping an eye on it. But we, we came to a truce and neither of us bothered the other. And by the time I got up in the morning, it was gone. So, there were a couple of places, where you had to be cautious of crocodiles. That's usually very well posted. It's more in the northern part of Western Australia because it's warm there year round. So I actually went to a place,, uh, I think it's sort of south of broom on the coast called 80 mile beach and. Again, it's more than 80 miles of the most beautiful beach you could imagine and no one was in the water. And I was like, why is nobody swimming? And they're like, oh, there's a crocodile sighting. Everybody's out of the water. And I was like, gosh, darn it. I don't really want to go in there. But maybe not the best idea. So, um,

Dr. Weili, Host

are saltwater crocodiles.

Dr. Jess, Guest

yes.

Dr. Weili, Host

yeah, which are like, the most aggressive animal.

Dr. Jess, Guest

And enormous like they're, they're huge or they

Dr. Weili, Host

They're way like over a ton. I, I, I remember, going on the yellow water cruise and near Darwin and hearing all about it. And they're like, by the way, you don't want to put your hands over the rail because they can jump.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Yeah, they can. They use that amazing tail to propel themselves out of the water. And they, they like, they leap for things.

Dr. Weili, Host

Wow, is that that is so amazing. So, so you went, six weeks mostly traveling alone through Western Australia. And hey, look, you made it out. You had a truce with a poisonous spider,

Dr. Jess, Guest

hmm.

Dr. Weili, Host

so it's all worth it. It's all worth it.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Absolutely. I can't say enough good things.

Jess' top-5 list for the world - #1, Bhutan

Dr. Weili, Host

sO, wow I'm sold. I'm all about going to Western Australia and I'm so glad you shared that with us. But I am not going to let you leave the podcast without also sharing, as a world traveler and having gone to seven continents, do you have like a, a top five for the, your world travels?

Dr. Jess, Guest

Ooh, I mean, I have loved so many places that I've gone that I can tell you five places I have loved. I mean, it would be like, it would be like... Picking a favorite child. I mean, you I can't say they're my favorite because as soon as I say something, I'll think of five other places that are my favorite but five places I, I, definitely recommend. I think I would I would start with Bhutan, which is in the sort of the low Himalayas. And it was like a fairy tale. It was like this mountain kingdom fairy tale. I think, especially because I got there by flying first to Bangkok, which was, just frantic. I mean, Bangkok is huge and it is busy and it is hyper and it is maximalism. It's terrific, but it's a lot. And then you get to Bhutan and it is peaceful and it is cool mountain mists, and it is monasteries with chiming bells and dancing cranes it was, it was like another world. So I, I strongly recommend Bhutan.

Dr. Weili, Host

That's amazing.

Dr. Jess, Guest

it was, it was, um, I, I loved my trip to, to Bhutan and the, the people are lovely and the scenery is extraordinary. The history is incredible. There's just so much. texture to everything. So, big recommendation for Bhutan.

Dr. Weili, Host

Awesome. And I interviewed a doctor who lives in Thailand and she was, saying well, we're really close to the rest of Southeast Asia, I named all of these places that like we're totally not on my radar, but I'm like, that's, but that's right. Every time you go to a new place, you're close to all these other new places.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Another place that I really enjoyed was I did a kind of a Canadian Rockies road trip. Where I, I actually started in Montana, so American Rockies and drove up through Waterton Lakes which is right on the border and then to Banff and then the Icefields Parkway up to Jasper. And the scenery is. Like nothing you could imagine. It's just mountains after mountains after mountains and striking vistas and these sort of milky blue glacial lakes. It's stunning. Just gorgeous. But the secret is out. People know

Dr. Weili, Host

Lots of people are also appreciating the stunning, gorgeous glacial lakes.

Dr. Jess, Guest

And especially places like Lake Louise and Moraine Lake. I think the summer after I was there, they started instituting sort of a mandatory shuttle system because the parking situation was just a nightmare. So it makes it harder to go places for sunrise. So if, if you're someone who wants sunrise photos, you really need to plan in advance now. I think it would actually Be a better overall experience to have more crowd control and less frantic parking situations. And the further along the parkway you go, the less crowded it is. So by the time I got up to Jasper, there were markedly less people and the scenery was still amazing.

Dr. Weili, Host

Good to know. Good to know. Always going off the beaten path.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Well, I think my third recommendation is very much on the beaten path, but I always like to put in a word for London. Especially if people are looking for like a A place to start. I think London is as rewarding the first time as it is the seventh time. There's always something new. The last time I was there I took a mud larking where when the Thames is at low tide You can go down these steps to the exposed sort of sand on the side and poke around and see what you find. And since London has been a city for, over 1000 years, you're going to find well, way over 1000 years, we found Roman pottery, we found pottery from like the Elizabethan age, we found pipe stems from the Georgian era, someone found a Victorian button. It was, it was just a really fascinating way to look at the history of the city and to feel like you could find it yourself. So I love to put in a word for London, not that it needs a word from me. And again, if you never gone somewhere internationally. This is a place with great public transportation. You don't have a language barrier. There's something for everybody's interests. If you like theater, if you like great food, if you like shopping, if you like football, if you like history, if you like old art, if you like new art, like London's got it.

Dr. Weili, Host

I love it. You're so good at selling.

Dr. Jess, Guest

So what do we want? No, I'm number four. I'm going to say Egypt. I've I've been twice now. I went once on my own and then had such a fantastic time. I went once again last fall and brought my mom because it was one of her goals to see the pyramids and

Dr. Weili, Host

And can, do you mind sharing how old your mom was when she went on this? Cause I, I, I think it's awesome.

Dr. Jess, Guest

she was. I think she was 79 years old. sHe's going to be mad if I got that wrong. We're going to say, we're going to say 78. Right.

Dr. Weili, Host

Okay. Or on the younger side, but still like that's, that's really awesome that she went to Egypt for the first time and it was on her bucket list and she did it, in her late seventies.

Dr. Jess, Guest

And she is a great travel companion because she's just an enthusiastic person. And so every time we went anywhere, she's like, oh, this is the best pyramid and that's the best camel and we just had the best salad.

Dr. Weili, Host

Oh

Dr. Jess, Guest

so she, it's really fun to travel with her. She, she likes everything, which, which makes it fun to take her places. But if you like history, the history in Egypt is. about as ancient and about as intact as you can find anywhere. And I, the size of the pyramids is, I just found it so mind boggling. Before I'd been, you'd see ancient aliens on TV and they'd be like, did aliens build the pyramids? And then you see them and they're so huge that you're like, it does seem like something that would take. superhuman ability, like they're just so big and there are, and there are many of them, the three great pyramids being the most striking, but then there are the queen's pyramids and several other sets of pyramids. It's, it's really amazing.

Dr. Weili, Host

What was your favorite way to see the pyramids? Was it because didn't you do a cruise too when you were in Egypt?

Jess' top-5 list for the world - #5, Namibia

Dr. Jess, Guest

yes the cruise was on the Nile and I think the most popular part of the Nile to cruise is between Aswan in the south and Luxor, which is further north. So you you don't really see the pyramids when you're on your Nile cruise, you see these temples that would have lined the Nile as part of a royal procession up and down the river, which are still extraordinary. And it is amazing to think that we can sail in the path of the pharaohs. So, I think a Nile cruise is a fantastic addition, especially if you've got someone who's a little older and it provides a lot of rest and rejuvenation as part of your Egypt trip because, there are times when you're on the boat absorbing the beautiful scenery and you get to rest your feet and have a snack and uh, let Egypt pass you by, so, uh, so that was number 4 and I think my 5th idea is actually going to be 1 that you've embraced and I'm going to speak up for Namibia.

Dr. Weili, Host

Yes!

Dr. Jess, Guest

I visited Africa as part of a three month overland trip a couple of years ago, where we started in Kenya and went through sort of Eastern Africa and further south and we ended in Cape Town so we passed through Namibia on our trip and while I don't know that I could live in the desert, any desert, I do really love Thank you. Visiting it, I think desert landscapes are so striking and Namibia has incredible landscapes. I think I hope you're going to include and the dead play on your trip which are, these massive sand dunes and it Tosha National Park. had incredible wildlife. It's where we saw our first leopard. At that point, we'd been there for two and a half months and hadn't seen a leopard. And I was starting to catastrophize, be like, if I don't see a leopard, I shouldn't have even come to Africa. What was I even thinking? And then we saw the leopard and I was like, I'm never leaving. This is the best thing I've ever seen in my entire life. So I, yeah, have very fond memories of Etosha. And then the sands continue basically all the way to the sea. You can see these massive dune fields that drop right into the ocean. I think you're going to have an extraordinary time.

Dr. Weili, Host

I'm so excited about Namibia and um, we have the tickets and, we're going in June of 2024 and I'm like, that is a really, really long time to wait. It's every day I'm thinking about it and I'm, my kids know I'm crazy about The I'm crazy about going to Namibia. So they're always like, my, my daughter's like, all excited and she's Oh, we're gonna go. Yeah, but it's so far

Dr. Jess, Guest

So far away.

Dr. Weili, Host

and what what I'm most excited about Namibia is and I don't tell me, tell me how you guys got around, but it's, it's actually, a very drivable country. So, you can rent Uh, Four by four and just drive through it,

Dr. Jess, Guest

Mm hmm.

Dr. Weili, Host

you can camp if you're a hardcore like Dr. Jess or I'm just going to plan to go to, different hotels along the way. But it's, there's just something really amazing about, hey, I'm just going to rent a car and drive through Namibia. It's

Dr. Jess, Guest

Mm hmm.

Dr. Weili, Host

amazing that, that we can do that.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Yeah, so, this was a group trip. And it was sort of a. Assemble it yourself kind of thing where you could pick different parts of the trip to include. So I started at the beginning in in Kenya and did almost the whole thing. I hopped off the trip in Cape Town. But it did continue to Johannesburg and a little further west. So some people really did the whole thing. Other people joined in Botswana and did a couple weeks. So, so it was a group of people that were sort of coming and going, which was interesting because you were never really with the same group for very long. And we got in, I think you'll see them when you're there. They have these massive overlander trucks that I think would be used for shipping, but they have modified them with, windows and bench seats in,

Dr. Weili, Host

So it's like a bus, like on steroids.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Yeah, so it's like a, it's like a bus that has been. Lifted like it's way off the ground and then you've got storage underneath and they have some where they'll take you to various hotels or sort of established camps where the tents are already there. I was on a more bare bones 1 where we set up our own tents and we cooked our own meals, which was. Really interesting, because that means, if you're going to cook your own meals, you have to go to the grocery store. So then you have to figure out, what's available and what can you cook for? I think at our height, we had something like 22 people. So it it gave an interesting perspective. And and so when we got to Namibia, we were sort of tent camping, but within established campgrounds, especially within the National Park, because of the wildlife,

Dr. Weili, Host

I was going to say, how do you cook outside and how do you camp and cook and, not attract wildlife that, you want to see, but not necessarily want to fight for your food with.

Dr. Jess, Guest

they will have sort of a, a sealed camp where you drive in and then everything's surrounded by fences and electrified fences to keep as many of the animals out as possible. It's not a guarantee. So you still have to be, aware. We didn't have any major wildlife run ins in camp, but you just always, keep an eye out.

Dr. Weili, Host

I knew you were in Africa for a long time, but I didn't realize that you had joined this group. Can you tell us a little bit about that? I never heard of this

Dr. Jess, Guest

Yeah, yeah, there are, there are many companies that do it. And again, there are many different economic levels. There are like really luxurious ones. And then there are more bare bones ones, depending on. how much time you have, how much you're willing to spend, how much work you're willing to do. So I think I, I did this in 2018. And I just picked one that was leaving around the time that I would be able to get to Kenya and tried to see as much as I reasonably could. So yeah, we

Dr. Weili, Host

1st sabbatical, right? That was your 1st sabbatical. After as an attending.

Dr. Jess, Guest

as an attending. Yep. Yeah, our hospital was transitioning to join a new health care system and there was a new company taking over the department and I said that I would sign on with them, but I was going to take a 6 month break and they said, okay. And I was like, oh, man, I should ask for 9. So, so yeah, I did 3 months in Africa. And then after that I went to, bali. I went to Australia. I went to New Zealand and I went to Antarctica. So I called it my Southern Hemisphere tour.

Dr. Weili, Host

sounds amazing! I didn't realize that that was the trip where you did all of that. I mean, I knew that you magically became this traveler, to all seven continents. I, I don't, I didn't know the order and how you did it. That, that, that's so amazing. I love it. So remember guys save up the money and whenever there's some transition at work, that's when you're going to ask for your six or nine month sabbatical.

Dr. Jess, Guest

It worked out for me for sure. And I will say, I do have a very flexible lifestyle. I don't have kids. I don't have pets. I don't even have plants. So for me to leave for six months is very simple. And I, I freely acknowledged that not. Everyone's life is quite as flexible as mine

Dr. Weili, Host

Well, you know what? It's where there's a will, there's a way. And I, I think, I'm inspired by Jessica. So I'm like, how do I make that work in my life

Dr. Jess, Guest

and you've done it. You really

Questions from my kids

Dr. Weili, Host

I'm, I'm trying, I'm trying. So I, I just have to ask the questions that my kids wanted to ask you. So I don't know if you've counted, but my kids wanted to know how many countries has Jessica been to?

Dr. Jess, Guest

I would say it depends on how you count them. Because there are some places that people think are a country and other people say they're not a country, that kind of thing. And for example, I did count Antarctica, even though Antarctica is not technically a country, and I counted Liechtenstein, even though I was only in Liechtenstein for six hours, so people can debate the number but I, the way I counted, I'm at 78.

Dr. Weili, Host

Wow. And what I learned is, the higher the number, it's like, there's this like really steep slope. It's like really easy to get to, the first however many, 50 or however many. And then after that, it just, you know, it's, it's a little bit more challenging. All right, 78. I'm going to go home and tell my kids. Okay, so this one they wanted to know what country that Jessica has not been to, do you want to visit and why?

Dr. Jess, Guest

Oh, that's a tough one. Because as you said earlier, like the more places you go, the more places you find out about, and then they get added to your travel list. So it just gets longer, the more that you travel. So I have. So many places that I want to go. So if we're going to say countries I've never been to that I want to go to, I, I would love to go to sort of the Central Asian countries on the Silk Road. I would love to do like Uzbekistan and, sort of that sort of central area, I think, would be

Dr. Weili, Host

were close, right? Because you were in Mongolia

Dr. Jess, Guest

and I was in, I was in Western Mongolia, so right up against the Kazakhstan border, so I was in Mongolia because I wanted to go to one of the Golden Eagle festivals, and That's sort of an ethnic Kazakh tradition. So these people were Mongolian because they live in Mongolia, but they were ethnically Kazakh. So it was an interesting, it was just an interesting kind of subculture,

Dr. Weili, Host

And I think some of them actually travel from Kazakhstan. Yeah.

Dr. Jess, Guest

For example, if anyone has seen the awesome documentary, the Eagle Huntress the subject of the documentary was a girl who wanted to be an Eagle Hunter and her name was Aishal Pan and her father, who's a figure in the documentary was at the festival where we were, and so we got an update and Aishal Pan is in college in Kazakhstan studying English,

Dr. Weili, Host

Oh, how cool.

Dr. Jess, Guest

pretty cool. Yeah.

Dr. Weili, Host

Wow. Okay. So central so central Asia, the central Asian countries that's a beautiful area of the world that, people don't I mean, aside from the events of 9 11 that people sort of. Don't really think about and it's, it's beautiful. I mean, it's, it's just seeing some of your photos from the part of Mongolia Western Mongolia. This is

Dr. Jess, Guest

Mm hmm.

Dr. Weili, Host

Whether I had been on the Silk Road actually, when it was 9 11, we were traveling in seeing down province in China and, going through like cash car. And so, the, the Chinese. Part of the Silk Road and it's a really fascinating culture and it's, it's very, very different from, like the Han Chinese culture, but it's, it's, it's a part of the world that, we don't really think about in the U. S.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Mm hmm. And it's, one of the limiting factors for me has been that it's hard to get there in a week or two weeks, and I keep meaning to add it to a larger itinerary and other things have taken precedence, but I think the next time I take a long leave that'll be Be super high on my priority list.

Dr. Weili, Host

Love it. She's already talking about next time. She just came back for her year and she's already planning in her head the next time.

Dr. Jess, Guest

it's going to be, it's going to be a while. It's going to be years, but it's good to have something to dream about. So, yeah, so that's high on my list. I haven't been to Brazil and I would love to go to a region and sort of, I think it's sort of the Southern. part of Brazil called the Pantanal which is famous for its jaguars that come to the river to hunt caiman, which are In the alligator crocodile family. I Love, I I've seen photos. It looks amazing.

Dr. Weili, Host

Okay. I was like, where did she get this idea from photos? Okay.

Dr. Jess, Guest

yEah, so those are two big ones on my list.

Dr. Weili, Host

Awesome. Awesome. I'm going to go home and tell my, my kids. Of course, they're going to be like, I want to do that too.

Dr. Jess, Guest

We should, we can all be in the Jaguar boat together.

Jess' final piece of wisdom

Dr. Weili, Host

Wow, well, thank you so much for saying yes to my invitation and coming on and sharing all these, pearls with travel. And, before I let you go, do you have any parting words for the doctors that are listening to inspire Hmm.

Closing remarks

Dr. Jess, Guest

I would say. You can get really caught up with trying to make everything perfect, and sometimes I think especially as physicians, we might get so caught up in this pursuit of making things perfect that it can interfere with actually. And it is. It's a big investment. It's an investment of your money. It's an investment of your time. So you really want it to pay off. And I understand that. But I will say I have never regretted a trip that I took, even if it wasn't the best time of year to go. Even if it wasn't necessarily my dream way of going. Would I have been happier traveling Africa by myself in theory? Probably. But practically that wouldn't have worked out for me. So I did this big group trip and was it perfect all the time? No. But would I have missed it? Not for anything. I'm, I'm so glad I went. So I think you're much more likely to regret the trips you didn't take.

Dr. Weili, Host

Full circle, right? Cause that's, that was your original inspiration. The regret that your mom had about

Dr. Jess, Guest

I know, I know. It's like this, it's like this generational FOMO.

Dr. Weili, Host

Wow. Well, thank you so much. And I think that is so wise. And then knowing you, you'll be like, Oh, yeah, I'm going to plan a trip. It's in two weeks, I'm going to book the tickets now and I'm going to go and I don't know where I'm going. And it's, it's so cool to see, like, how confident you are

Dr. Jess, Guest

And again, I want to acknowledge that it is easier to do that when you're one person who doesn't have any like living things relying on you at home. And people who have families and pets and plants definitely have more. to organize than I do. And so you shouldn't feel bad if you're not someone who can, at the drop of a hat, decide they're going to drive to New Mexico to see the solar eclipse. Which, which I did. if travel sounds like something you want to try, the sooner the better.

Dr. Weili, Host

Awesome. Words of wisdom. Amen.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Thanks for having me. This has been really fun.

Dr. Weili, Host

It is so fun. And hey, you guys, you have to check out Jess's Instagram and follow her on there. She's at wander. awhile. And I promise you, following her photos, you're going to get some travel ideas. And before you know it, you're going to, book that trip to either Western Australia or wherever it is that she's going. beCause it does really work on the unconscious.

Dr. Jess, Guest

Thanks for having me.