Dare to Dream Physician Travel Podcast

Ep 104: Life-Changing Travel with Multiple Generations in Tanzania, Part 1, with Dr. Amy Garlove

• Dare to Dream Physician • Episode 104

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Dr. Weili Gray, Host

hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Dare to Dream Physician Travel Podcast. I am so excited this week. I hope you're all having a great week and, we're gonna have this such amazing conversation cuz I invited a doctor, who had just, had this incredible experience traveling to Tanzania. I can't wait to learn more about it. And she's also a fellow travel lover, so I just can't wait to get to know her as well. her name is Dr. Amy Garla and I'm gonna have her introduce herself. Welcome to the podcast Dr. Amy.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to talk to you.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

So tell our audience a little bit about, yourself, where do you live, what do you practice, and how did you start traveling?

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

So I'm a pediatrician and I live in Louisville, Kentucky. I have, three kids, ages 12, 17, and 20. and a husband. And my love for travel, Really started in childhood. My grandmother, who, was a widow from early on when she was raising her kids, including my mom, she would take a trip every other year. So she would save for a year and then she'd travel the next year and say for a year. and that was. That was really unique in her time. this was in the, I guess the fifties and the sixties. And so she would just travel alone and she'd come back with these great stories and she made all of these friends all around the world and she would tell me all about'em and show me, these horrible Kodak paper pictures that you could barely see anything. But I think that is what started my interest in travel. and so obviously in medical school, and residency, it's, and with young children, it's hard to really do a lot of travel, although if you have young children out there and you're listening to this, go ahead and start them young. It's amazing how quickly the time that your children are in your home with you and able to travel with you, it goes away so fast. So now I have a little bit of regret that I didn't start. Taking big trips with my kids when they were younger. We would go to the beach or, somewhere drivable or that sort of thing. probably, I don't know, 10 years ago, I guess we took our first international trip with the kids.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

And how old were they at the time?

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

let's see, my oldest was probably 12, so I guess eight years, almost nine years ago. and my youngest would've been, I guess four at the time. Almost

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Oh, okay. So you were taking them, I mean that's, that's pretty young. Four is a pretty young age

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

She is, although she's the third kid, she just rolls with whatever.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Yeah. Yeah, I understand.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

and we went to Europe. We went to, London and Paris. and we took my dad with us. His father fought in Normandy and so we wanted to go to Normandy and see that for the first time and make sure that he was able to go and see where his dad had landed. And so that was amazing. and then, we spent a couple days in Paris and we've done that a couple times. I think France is kind of where our true love is. We've gone to France multiple times with the kids. and I think ultimately maybe we'd like to retire there someday. We've done a lot of trips around the us. We took a r every year when, when one of our kids turns 10, we let them pick a trip in the continental United States and they have to plan it. With parents' right of refusal. We get to make adjustments.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Oh, I love that tradition. That is so cool.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

it's been really fun. My oldest picked, Williamsburg and, DC and Gettysburg, and so that was a road trip. It was great. It was, we all had an amazing time. when my son turned 10, he wanted to go, to Seattle by train. And so we went from Chicago. we stopped in Glacier National Park for a few nights and then hopped on the train again and made our way to Seattle and then went to Portland and stuff like that. So, That was an amazing trip. That has to be done with little people, though. We got a sleeper car and the beds are pretty tiny, so, but it was amazing. It was such a amazing trip to be able to see parts of the country that there's no roads even. And you certainly wouldn't see it by plane. And that was, that's a whole other podcast cuz that was an interesting trip.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

that, that's really awesome. Yeah, you were telling me about that before and I, it just never even occurred to me to go out west on, on train.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

it was interesting because you definitely need to go into it. They don't run like European railroad. and so you have to go into it with the expectation that it's not gonna be perfect. We ended up having, the track was washed out because of a flood, so we had a 12 hour delay in the middle of a soybean field in, North Dakota.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Wow.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

and if I'd been in an airport sitting for 12 hours, I would've been losing my mind. But this was kind of cool. We had, we hung out in the observation car and there was an, a Native American, park ranger that was there that came and told us stories of Native Americans and things about the, ecology of the parks in the area. And, we played card games and, and there wasn't laundry to do and there was an email to check and it was, it was actually kind of fun.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Wow.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

So we've done all kinds of, of trips, and we can't wait to take even more. But this one was, this was kind of the big one. This was my dad for his 80th birthday. Wanted to go somewhere with his kids and grandkids. That was gonna be life altering. And that's, that's a quote from him. and so he, started planning this trip and he decided to go to Tanzania. and we were initially supposed to go in June of 2020. And obviously that didn't happen. And so we, put it off until we felt like it was safe for everybody to travel. And so we ended up doing it this summer.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

That's so, that's so amazing. And I, and of course we're gonna talk all about this trip. but I love, there's so many things that in your story that I love so far, especially the, the part like so special, how you shared that you started your love of traveling. Through hearing stories from your grandmother who was really a fascinating person from how, how you're describing her. I mean, just a woman who is totally ahead of her times. I mean, you just never know the impact that you have on people around you, whether like being an aunt or, like a grand grandma. just, just telling stories, like just sharing your experience and then the, the kids or whoever's listening, hear of what's possible. I've never heard of someone, in, in that era at least who did what your grandmother did, but yet that she did that and, and she's sure that with, with her grandkids,

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Yeah, she was a bit of a trailblazer for sure.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

And then the other thing that I so love is how you've really weaved in travel, like with your entire family. One that you get your kids. So I love that how, that you, you let your kids pick the trip and then plan it. So that's reminds me of, I was an only child, so I didn't have the, the advantage of having, several siblings, but my. My dad was very, I think it was like part of his goal to help, his child be, independent. So, I think when I was nine or 10, he was like, okay. Like he picked the place to go, because he thought, every kid who we, we were immigrants, so he's every kid in America, of course wants to go to Disney World, so he plan, so he picked the the spot, like we're gonna Disney World, but you're gonna plan this. you're gonna, we have the AAA book with all the hotels and the route, you go to AAA and you get this map and they

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Oh yeah. Highlighted.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Yeah. So he is yeah, you're gonna help me navigate with map. And then, yeah, here are the hotels, help. So like back then it was mostly like calling hotels and, booking the hotels from a list. But yeah, it, I just remember like how impressionable I was as a kid and then that. we really never traveled internationally as a family when I was growing up because my parents just didn't have the money at the time. But then when I was a college student, I, started traveling on my own in Europe. and I just, Like I had, I think that helped, like when I was a kid and my, my parents got me involved in the planning process, and then later I would help pick destinations that we go to. I think it really helped me be a more confident traveler. So I love that, that you, you incorporated that into your family tradition. And then the last part that I love is how you travel with, multiple generations. How even like the first big trip that you picked, you involved your dad and and the kids were on there too, so it's three generations and, and just involving him in part of that. And then, um, and of course, the, the, this trip that you went on, I love that it's, was it just you? And were, were there, your immediate family and your dad or were there other, other, families in there too?

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

No. So it was, there were 11 of us total, so it was, my two sisters and their kids and husband.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Wow.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Yeah, it was, it was great.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

That's, that's so amazing. It's so special to, to share like, this exp this life altering experience as, as you're saying, with, with the whole family. It just, that's such, such a fun tradition. so yes. Tell us, tell us more. So it sounds like your dad did a lot of the planning, and Yeah. That, that's, that's awesome. That's,

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

he's super organized and so he, he did most of the planning. He, he, he asked for a lot of input from us just with our tribal experiences and, and that sort of thing. it was, it was actually fairly easy cuz we went through a safari company and so, Most trips that I've planned, I've gotta figure out day-to-day what we're doing. And this was basically, they gave us a list of their different safari options and we selected, and then once we selected, the amount of time that we wanted to spend there, then they gave us other options, of things to do in addition to going on the safari. So, the game drives are kind of the staple of what we did, but we also opted to go to a couple of schools and, a clinic, got to go to one of the, Maasai, bomas or their, kind of their village. and that was, that was something we really wanted to do was to be able to incorporate not only getting to see the land and the animals, but also learning a little bit more about the people. And that ended up being the best part, honestly.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Mm. yeah, so first tell us a little bit more about, I guess, like when, when your dad picked this place and then now, you and, and the kids and, and your husband and, and the rest of your family are going, what were the kids' reactions? Like how were you preparing them for this big trip?

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Well, my kids were over the moon. They were just ecstatic about it. They were so excited. this trip, even though I didn't have to plan details as much, it really took a lot of, organization and I don't, I don't pack other people's suitcases. I haven't, since my kids were pretty little. I certainly don't pack my husband's suitcase. And my mantra has always been, well, if you forget it, we're not going to a third world country. We're gonna be in Europe or wherever. We'll just, go to the local store and buy the toothbrush that you forgot, or whatever. Well, that all went out the window with this trip cuz, oh my gosh, here we are. We're gonna be in the third world country. There's certainly not a Walmart in the middle of the Serengeti, right? So, I was pretty meticulous about how we were packing and we didn't have the right clothes for it, I mean, you have to wear, you, you need things that are quick dry and you need things that are, they recommend, neutral colors so that you kind of blend into the background. If you're wearing bright red, then it might scare animals away. Blue and black attract TSI flies and so they recommend not wearing anything blue and black. It turns out everything in my closet is blue or black. So, it, it really took some planning and, and, and you could easily, you could easily do this. with what you have mostly in your closet. my husband could have worn white undershirts or, that sort of thing, but I did kind of embrace it. I'm like, we we're outdoorsy, we like to be outside. And so buying everybody a couple pairs of hiking pants with zip off legs so they could turn into shorts. That's fine. I can do that. but I had for probably six months in, an extra bedroom area. I had five giant duffle bags. And when I would find something that we would need for the trip, I'd buy five of them and I would toss one in each bag. and then the other part of it is you're limited with our, with our safari, we did have to take a small plane from the city that we landed in at the international airport. into the Serengeti. And so we were limited to only 33 pounds total luggage. so that was

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

per family

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

per, per, I'm sorry, per person.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

okay. Okay.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

and I'm not typically a big packer, but this was really intimidating. I had, I, I am kind of a pseudo photographer, so I have a lot of camera equipment. and then because I'm a doctor, I always carry a ginormous medical kit with me just in case. And I've got antibiotics and I've got a suture kit and I've got, antidiarrheals and I have all of the things just in case, but it's heavy and I mean, four or five pounds, let's say. and so I was pretty much halfway done with my packing allowance, just between the camera and the, and the medical kits. So,

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

hear you. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

There was a lot of shuffling things around, like if I take, if I take a little bit out of this bag and put it into that bag. And so it was, it, it was, that part was actually really stressful. because they said if you get to the airport and they weigh your bags and they weigh too much, then you'll have to leave stuff behind. And I was trying to figure out, I'm obviously taking the medical kit and I'm taking my camera. I was trying to figure out which kid I was gonna have to leave behind.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Yeah, I actually really, so the, the tip that you had of, an extra space, throughout the, the months leading to the big trip, Hey, I'm gonna buy se five pairs of these pans and, and laying that out. that's, that's really good. That's, that's one of the tricks I hear about making packing less annoying is, throughout the weeks or months leading to the trip, just, having, throwing things into the luggage or a duffel bag like you are. so that it's whatever comes up you can just, instead of making a list and losing the list. Cuz I would probably lose the list. just, just putting it there. That, that's, that's really helpful.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

I've never done that before, but again, I've never had a trip where packing has been. so stressful. the other thing I would recommend is packing cubes, and I do use those regularly. we brought these, we had to bring soft sided luggage, so we had these giant duffel bags, but with only 33 pounds worth of stuff in it. They were mostly empty. I mean, they really were not full at all. And it was nice to have everything. I had all the pants in one packing cube for, for each person, all the underwear in one packing cube. The one thing I would say that I forgot, and I would hopefully remember the next time around, is an empty packing cube for dirty laundry. And that way you weren't sorting through all of this stuff that just ended up, it's like carrying a giant purse. everything just kind of ends up at the bottom. So it was really nice to have packing cubes and even my husband said, I'm really glad we did the packing cubes this time. So,

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Hmm. Awesome, awesome. And then was there anything that your kid, your kids are 12, the youngest is now 12, and the oldest is, did you say 21? 20. So, oh, my, my kids are seven years apart too. My, my oldest youngest. so I, I totally hear what you're saying though, start early, because otherwise the oldest kid is gonna get too old to, to want to travel with you. so, so yeah, like how did you prepare them? were they, aside from the packing, like were, were they just like excited? did they, did you have to, prepare anything with them?

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

They're such great travelers. They, I mean, they just, I, I really think that we could have said we're going, somewhere that would not be appealing at all, and they'd be like, Okay, let's try it. I'll see. so, but this, they were, they were excited about, and we did watch some videos on YouTube and some stuff on National Geographic just to learn more about kind of what we would be seeing. And I think that got everybody even more excited. they even did, we, we didn't have to do yellow fever vaccine, but we did have to, do typhoid, we did oral vaccine for typhoid and that kind of upset some stomachs, but even, I mean, they were just like, whatever, if we have to do yellow fever shots, we're happy to do it. they're, they were just open to whatever the experience was gonna be. They're, they thought it was great.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Mm. Actually, that this is a great point that you bring up. So, so you did the typhoid oral shots. did you have to prepare them for malaria prophylaxis? For, for, for everybody.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

We did, we did, Malone for malaria prophylaxis. My dad was the only one that did doxy and it upset his stomach, or made him dizzy. I can't remember. There was something, some side effect that he had when he started the doxy, the week before we left. And he was like, I can't do this. So he ended up switching to Malone as well.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

That's what I hear. That one has the least, tends to have the least side, side effects for people.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

that's what I had read and there was still warning labels on, the sticker on the, on the bottle that we got said, if you vomit within 30 minutes, take another pill. And I was like, oh God, this is, this is gonna be terrible. But honestly, we had no side effects with the Malone. None. No, nobody in the group of 11.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

and, and you started how, how far in advance.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

I think we started the, I think the recommendation is to start 24 hours before your first exposure. We actually started, I think two or three days before we left just because I wanted to see how everybody was gonna do,

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

then you take it every day while you're gone. and then you take it up to a week after you get back.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

mm, yeah. Well that's, that's great that you, that you had good experiences with that cuz that's, I have to say, that's one of the things that I'm worried about because I, Africa is definitely on my list and, definitely wanna go to Tanzania one day, but I'm like, oh, I'm so scared of what if I can't tolerate the, the prophylaxis and, just, or what if I get malaria because I was throwing up the, the medication.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

I, that was actually a big concern of mine too. I'm pretty sensitive to medications and I usually am the one that ends up with, the stomach ache or I think insomnia was one of the side effects of the Malone, and I'm like, oh, I can't go two weeks with no sleep. And, but we really had no issues at all. Now I will say my daughter came, my oldest daughter came back with something, and we ultimately had her tested for malaria and did, did like a peripheral smear and did some blood tests and some stool tests and stuff like that. And everything came back negative for malaria. And the working diagnosis is that she probably ended up with chikungunya, which I hadn't thought of since second year of medical school microbiology. But, it's a mosquito borne illness that kind of makes you real achy and gives you some GI symptoms and stuff. So even with the, with the malaria prophylaxis and with using, I sprayed all of our clothes before we left with Permethrin and we had deep wipes and all that stuff, and it still, a few people got bitten. And this is, this was the dry season in Tanzania. The wet season I think is probably even worse. so I would definitely, definitely encourage people to take their malaria prophylaxis if it's recommended in the area, where you're traveling because those little bugs will get you. and my daughter has felt pretty crummy since we got back. She's starting to get better now, but,

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

And your two weeks, you've gotten that for two weeks? Yeah.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Yeah. So fortunately it didn't happen. She didn't feel bad while we were there. It all started the day we got home. So that was,

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

And then did you guys go to a travel clinic locally to, to get your medications?

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

so we did not, I, I did the research on the CDCs website and, told our doctors, this, these are what the recommendations are. It was pr it was so straightforward cuz it was all stuff that could be ordered through the pharmacy. Um,

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

through your local pharmacy you could order me alone. Oh, that's

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Yeah. And it took a little while. The mallone, I think, was readily available, but the, typhoid vaccine, it took a week or so for them to get in. and, but I think my understanding is, is that yellow fever has the yellow fever vaccine, I think has to, at least here in Louisville, has to be done through the travel clinic. So if we were going to a place that required that, we would've definitely gone to the travel clinic.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Very cool. Well thanks for that, that background. And okay, so then you are flying there. How did you fly there, like from Louisville? How, how do you get to Tanzania?

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Yeah, so there's not a direct flight, surprisingly. we flew, Atlanta to Amsterdam on Delta and then Amsterdam to Kilimanjaro on, K L M.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Oh, nice,

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

And we met up with the rest of my family in Amsterdam. So they were flying in from either San Francisco or Boston. And so everybody kind of convened in Amsterdam and then we flew together to get to Kilimanjaro.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

you kind of broke up the flight cuz you, you had to layover in, in Europe. so it wasn't like a 15 plus hour flight, like sometimes if you're flying from mainland US to Africa.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Yes, that's correct.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

And

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

it was nice to have a little bit of a break.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

yeah, how did everyone do? did you fly economy or business?

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

So we flew, economy. on the Delta flights, and we flew, I think it was like Comfort Plus or something on K L M. So we were able to get an upgrade on K lm. We, for whatever reason, Delta wouldn't let us upgrade, so it's fine. the Delta flights were actually pretty tight. I'm not, I'm five three and so I usually don't have much trouble at all in, in an airplane, but that flight from Atlanta to Amsterdam, which was overnight, so it really was kind of my sleeping flight. It was almost impossible. It was so cramped and uncomfortable. my knees were in the seat in front of me. the Comfort Plus was actually great. I mean, our seats reclined a lot more. We had tons of leg room. it was fine.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Oh, very nice. Very. And that was from, Amsterdam to Kilimanjaro,

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Yes. So it was, I think it was nine hours from Atlanta to Amsterdam, and then I think it was 10 hours from Amsterdam to Kilimanjaro.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Got it. And how long was your layover in Amsterdam?

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

I think it was three hours on the way there. It was 45 minutes on the way back.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

No way. And you made it,

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

We made it. We were kind of hoping that we wouldn't, we're like, well, we'll just spend a couple days in Amsterdam. But no, it was, we had no problem.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

right. Oh, awesome. And then so you arrive so was, was Kilimanjaro where you started your trip?

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Yeah, so that's the, international airport that's in ausa, which is, the city that is, that we started from.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

And then

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

we spent, we spent, one night, we actually, designed our trip so that we would arrive a day earlier than they were. Planning for us to just for wiggle room, in case flights were canceled or whatever. So, and, and our Safari operator, which was Thompson Safaris, they're out of Watertown Mass, they were great. they actually said, oh yeah, you all wanna come a day early, that's fine. We'll just, will just extend your trip a day early. So they met us at the airport and they took us to the hotel and got us situated. so we were initially gonna spend one night in Arusha before we actually started on the true safari part. So we ended up spending two nights there, which was great. It was, it's a, it's an interesting city. I think it's a population of, two and a half million. but it is, it's very different than any city I've ever visited. it's poor and, there's, it's busy, there's a lot of motorcycles and, cars zipping around, but not like, not like Boston or Atlanta or New York City here. It's, it's very different.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Yeah, probably. I, I've never, I've never been there, but just, I'm imagining some of the large cities that I've been, in in third world countries are just it just felt, feels chaotic. Like it's, it's like a lot of

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

we were like, we cannot drive here. We, my husband would pretty much drive anywhere. He's I could not drive here.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's exciting and there's a lot of, things to take in through your senses and, yes, those are the places where I'm like, I'm happy if I know somebody there who's, taking me around

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

it, yeah, definitely. so that was, let's see, we left Louisville on a Wednesday. We arrived in Tanzania Thursday night. we spent all day Friday just kind of hanging out at the hotel and, and kind of getting our bearings. all of our food was included. well for the whole trip. All of our food was included, including at this hotel. so we didn't really have to go out and into the city and find places to, to go. and then Saturday morning they took us to the local kind of, I guess regional airport in aia. And we hopped on our little single propeller, plane that took us up to a dirt strip outside the Serengeti. And that's where our guides met us.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

And was that just you? Like your party of 11? Oh, how fun. You get charter flight.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

I think there was room for one other person on that plane. It was tiny.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Wow. Wow. okay. And then, and then you're in the Serengeti and what was, what did it, what did it feel like? What, when you're landing on this dirt strip,

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Well, I was a little terrified. It was actually, it was a super easy flight. Like we didn't have any bumps or anything. And it was kind of cool cuz the pilot is sitting right there with us. And so he was pointing things out as we were flying And, so we, we land and, we had three gods, so we had our two primary guides and then we had, something that our safari company does is if you have kids that are traveling as part of a, family safari, they they assign what's called a mentor and he's kind of a young guide, like young in the process and young. He was 23 and his whole, whole purpose is to make sure the kids are having fun

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

That's so amazing. How many kids were on this trip?

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

So we had my three, and then my two nieces, um, are 14 and 11.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Okay, so the, the, it was ranging from like 11 to your daughter who's 20. Yeah. Who's about the same age as the guy, but that, that's so much fun.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Well, they had so much fun with this guy. So he was, he was a former soccer player in Tanzania, was actually headed towards the E P L and he got injured. And so he had a cool story and he taught my kids all, all of the kids, he taught them African board games and card games, and they shared musical tastes and they played soccer together. And even after we got home, I, I called my son down for dinner or something and he said, hang on, I'm in the middle of something. And I said, what are you doing? And he said, I'm texting with Siddiq. And that was, I mean, after we got home, they're like Instagram friends, so they really kind of forged this friendship with this guy. He was amazing.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Hmm, that just reminds me of, I don't usually, use, like travel agents cuz like you said, usually I'm like a do-it-yourself type of planner. but recently I, went to Taiwan and I just had so many different travels that I was trying to plan that I was like, I think it just makes sense, to just get a travel agency and, and have a guide and, because usually that's another place where I thought I could just drive there. And then they're like, it's probably not a good idea. Just, people have like their own rules driving. You're not gonna be able to feel comfortable, driving there at least the first time you go. So, so we had a guy who was also our driver and and at first my kids were like, Why is there someone with us? They thought it was so weird. They're like, Especially my daughter who's six, of course kids are very honest. She's I don't really having someone with us all this time. And then, and then I think I really appreciated it. and I think they did too, because you get to, you get to, you learn about, it's, it's a local, showing you their, their local sites and, you have an insider's, view of the country and the destination you're going to. So I actually really appreciated that. And, and we're gonna, we're gonna do more trips with, travel guides, especially as we're venturing out and we're in places where we normally would feel uncomfortable if we were going on our own. But, yeah. I, I love that that example you gave of, how having a guide really adds to your experience.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

It was so great because all three of our guides, so even the ones that were in charge of the grownups, we learned so much from them. Teaching us about the animals and the ecology of the land and the customs of the people. We did a lot of cultural exchange, just they wanted to know what it was like for us. One of the guys, asked my husband what my dowry was when we got married and he said, well, that's not something we do in the us. And then my husband was really disappointed that he didn't get three cows when we got married.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Oh.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

but it was, it was so fascinating to me. And, and, and we really, I mean, over the course of the 12 days that we spent with these guides, we, they really kind of became part of our family. My, my dad described it perfectly. He said they were like lifelong friends that we had never met before, and it was just perfect.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

mm Wow. That's, that's amazing. And that's always been one of the things I really look forward to, going to Africa is, is the, there's, there's just something really special about the people. And I, I'm sure you're gonna share more about that. There's something, I don't know if it's like the land or the fact that, there's been a lot of struggles, and for the people, like, it's just, there's something really genuine. And, I don't know, for me, I always had this idea, I wanna go to Africa to experience like a genuine friendship. And I mean, of course I have genuine friendships here, but I feel like it's a, it's, it's cultural, like a di it's a different culture. And, that's always been my fascination with, with,

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Absolutely. Someone told me before we left that you go to see the animals, but you go back because of the people. And I fully, fully believe that now the people are just unbelievable. I mean, it literally changed. Me at my core interacting with the people.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

How, how did it change you? I'm, I'm curious.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

well, exactly what you said. There's just such a genuineness. they're so happy. They're, they're just at every level. They're so happy. They exude joy. I asked one of our guides, again, just as part of the cultural exchange stuff. I said, is depression a problem here? And, and his English is excellent. And he said, I don't think I know that word. And so I gave him a definition and he, he looked at me just quizzically and said, what would we have to be sad about? And I mean, even thinking about it now, it brings tears to my eyes. These people, live in, just abject poverty. And they, they just, they don't have any of the things that we have, but they're happy. And I just, I, I came back home and one of the first things I did the morning after we got home is I got up and, I, typical morning, I, made my coffee and I, I put my Apple watch on and I hadn't taken my watch with me. Obviously I didn't have any need for it. And so I put it on the morning, we got back and I thought, well, this is stupid. Why do I, what, what is the need for this? Why do I have this? and it, it really has made me kind of look at this crazy life. We live here in the US and it's so busy and demanding and we don't have, we, our priorities are not on the things that their priorities are on, their priorities are. a lot of, a lot of the people there, their priorities are feeding their families and getting clean water and trying to find healthcare. but then community is a probably the biggest part of one of their priorities. It justing focuses around relationships with each other, with the animals, with the earth. and I just kept thinking, we're doing it wrong. We're completely doing it wrong, and obviously depression and anxiety and there's so many problems that are here. Wow. What we could all learn by doing it a little more their way. It really did. It has, it has impacted a lot. And, and don't get me wrong, I haven't come back here and sold my house and, given up all material goods. Because I think that's impossible in the, in the world that we live in here. We just can't. but it was really refreshing to be away from it all and to see how happy the people there were.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Mm, that, that's, that just brings chills to my, to my body. just like hearing it. It's, it's, that's, that's, that's amazing. And, and that's what part of what I love about travel is it really just, it changes us. it's like we, we go there, cause we're like all excited. We wanna see a new part of the world. We wanna meet a new culture and eat new food. But it's like you come back with something too. you come back with a new perspective that you can't unsee. once you see these things, like you can't, you can't forget them, you can't unsee them.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

You're right, you're right. so yeah, that, that part was amazing. And that's what I wanna go back for. but the animals were awesome.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

so before we talk about the animals, which I know is what people go to Africa about, tell us about the, you said the Maasai village, so, you're kind of describing these people and you, you had really intense interactions with your guys who you felt was part of your family at the end. But, was this description that you gave, was it like, the interactions you had with your guys or was it also like when you were, meeting, doing the culture exchanges? I wanna hear a little bit more about that.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

it was everything from we'd be driving along these dirt roads, that would, obviously take you into, game parks and that sort of thing, but also, through small villages and or you'd be driving along and it would be nothing but Savannah. And then you would see one of the little Messiah children. And at around age four, they are tasked with, a herd of goat or sheep. And so they are standing out there in the middle of the Savannah. They are. and they would, they would stop what they were doing. And there, there's usually a couple of'em that are there together and they would run towards the road waving and shouting, Jambo jumbo. They'd be saying hello to us. and so everything is with this, something as small as that to, we were invited by one of our guides, to go into one of the Maasai bomas or villages, and they were having a celebration that day. Every seven years they kind of induct a new class of Messai warriors. and so boys between the ages of 14 and 21 on the day of this or the time of this celebration get circumcised. And they, they have a public circumcision. and everybody in the, in the boma and the neighboring Bomas will come and celebrate these new warriors after they've had their procedure done and they get dressed up and they put on all of their beautiful jewelry and they dance and they sing and they jump. Jumping is a really big thing for the Messai warriors. and it's this humongous celebration and it just so happens the day that we were going to the BOMA was one of the days of the celebration. They had had a couple boys that had had gone through the circumcision earlier in the day. And so at first it was a little bit uncomfortable, like we felt almost voyeuristic, but our guide kept saying They are so excited. To show this off, to show this tradition off and to dance for you. And, so, they had warned us at the beginning of the trip to, to not take photos of people or cattle without permission. And they said, you're fine to take pictures here. Please come and, and watch them. Be proud of this tradition. And so, we got there and it's, it was 11 of us, obviously Westerners. I have blonde hair. There's not another blonde person in sight. and so we, we kind of hesitantly started taking some pictures because the colors are beautiful and the people are beautiful and their dances are amazing. And the kids started warming up to us and they wanted to see, we were showing them the backs of our cameras. Like we just, here's, I took a picture of you and here's what it looks like. And all of a sudden we were swarmed by all of these villagers who wanted us to take their picture and show it to them. and at one point there was an elder Messiah woman who was speaking to my daughter, my older daughter, and she was fairly firm in her tone. She was speaking Messiah. So we thought maybe she was fussing at us or telling us that we needed to go away or something like that. And so our guide came over and he speak, he's Messai, so he speaks the, the language. And he said, no, no, she's not upset with you. She's teaching your daughter Messai words that are only used between adult Maasai women. So he's, she's welcoming your daughter with these women only words. And I said, well, what's she saying? And he said, I don't know. They're women words, so we dunno what she was saying. But she was very, very friendly. I mean, she was, she was trying to incorporate, us into her culture by teaching us about it. and I thought, I just thought that was, that was so cool. They're in the midst of this humongous party and they're excited to see us and to, to show us what they're doing. And it was just, so, again, everything from the kids waving on the side of the street to this village, inviting us in to what is seems to be a very sacred, tradition. It was just amazing. And then we met other people along the way. We went to, we went to a couple of schools and we took some school supplies with us because they're so limited on their school supplies. we, I think they, the head mistress told us that, there's usually a hundred kids per classroom and one teacher.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Wow.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

and all of the kids that we met that were at the school had, their hands were covered in ink writing on their hands. It's because they don't have vapor, so they do their math problems on their palms or on

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

oh wow.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

so that was, that was really fun. And those kids were great. My kids, went and played soccer. We took some soccer balls and, and a pump, for them to keep. And so they went and played soccer with the kids. Cuz normally what they were playing with was wadded up newspaper. and that was their soccer ball. So they, now they have a real soccer ball. one of the most amazing things was we went to a clinic, and the woman in charge of the clinic is a nurse midwife. She was teaching us about how her clinic is run and she does mostly primary care stuff. they do get vaccinations from the government and she said there's a 95% vaccine uptake among the people in her area, which I thought was amazing. but her primary goal is women's health. And so, she said that most of the women like to deliver at home in their village, and there's typically a village midwife as well. And my question was, well, what happens if they have preterm labor or they have a placental abruption, or, something that's high risk? And she said, well, typically what they'll do is the local midwife will determine that the mother needs more care. And so they will. Put her on the back of a donkey, or if she's lucky, on the back of a motorcycle, and drive her an hour or so to this clinic where we were. And then the nurse midwife will determine if she needs more care. And if she does, then she can call an ambulance, which is four hours away. The ambulance will come and pick the woman up and drive her four hours back to the, higher level hospital.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Mm.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

And I said, what happens to those women? And very matter of factly, she said, the mothers and babies die. And I thought, I can't imagine that scenario of first of all, being in preterm labor or having a complication and being put on the back of a donkey to go get more healthcare. And then, Still having to wait for potentially eight hours to be transported to somebody that can actually help me. and as much as our healthcare system, and we all know that as physicians is a bit of a disaster. We still take it so much for granted.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

True.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

we have access to, somebody that even has something as simple as a scalpel and a Bovie to do a C-section and they've got none of that. And she literally, she said, I don't have supplies, I don't have gauze pads and I don't have, an incubator. And, it was just so eyeopening to me. and she has no thought that she's gonna get more help from the government.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Mm. Wow. And this is out in like the bush, like this is mostly, um, the, the where, where you flew in with your bush plane.

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

Yes. Where we landed on a dirt road.

Dr. Weili Gray, Host

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. These are really incredible, incredible stories. and yeah, just kind of reminds me, well, one, I one question I had was, you knew to pack school supplies and pack a soccer ball. was there a list, like how did you know what would be helpful for them?

Dr. Amy Garlove, Guest

So, we had asked our safari company when they, when they gave us a list of options of other things we could do in addition to, the safari. we said we really would like to do these things. We would like to go to school. We, I was the only healthcare worker in the group, but, I think my dad knew how important it was for me to be able to see what the access was like for people there. And so that we added that to our list. And then we said, look, we know these places don't. Have very much, I don't think we had any idea how little they had, but we said, is there anything that they need that we can bring that would still fit in our 33 pounds of luggage? but that might be helpful to them. And so they said, oh, they like paper and pencils and solar calculators is what we ended up bringing. and then she said, they, they appreciate toys for the kids, anything like that. And so, my son's a soccer player, so he said, I wanna take soccer balls. Then obviously soccer's, big over there. so that's how we ended up taking those things.

That wraps up part one of a two-part and to be with Dr. Amy regarding her family's life altering trip to the Serengeti in Tanzania. I am so grateful Dr. Amy. I was willing to come on the podcast and share this amazing experience that she had, I can hear how much it's impacted her, just from the way that she's telling this story. And I can not wait to share next week's episode with you, where we go into part two talking about animals and the rest of her experience in Tanzania. So stay tuned. You'll love next week's episode two.