Ep 50: The Joy of Giving and Receiving with Dr. Recha Bergstrom

Physicians care deeply about many issues that affect our patients, society, and the world at large.  Legacy building is often an important part of the Life Plan.  One way to create impact and build a legacy is through philanthropy.  Yet we may have limiting beliefs that are holding us back.  Do physicians wait to give until we feel financially and socially secure? Isn't philanthropy an activity reserved for the ultra-privileged multi-millionaires or billionaires?  Physicians already have to shoulder a large student debt burden, job insecurity, and burnout.    How can physicians start to reap the joy of giving and start to contribute to issues we deeply care about now?

❤️ When we as physicians are on the receiving end of charity, we experience firsthand the impact of giving and fundamentally change how we look at giving.
❤️ Why the amount we give is not as important as just the act, using the example of Giving Circles that started with a small group of moms who would do a potluck and pooled the money they would have otherwise spent for a meal at a restaurant and donated that to charity each month. This one group grew to hundreds of chapters around the United States.
❤️ How the act of giving is radically separate from one's income or net worth. 

I loved this inspiring conversation with Dr. Recha Bergstrom, who is a mom of three, wife, entrepreneur, and philanthropist.  Her husband is a winemaker and together they make award-winning wines in Santa Cruz Mountains – Sandar & Hem Wines.  Recha is also the founder of The Physician Philanthropist, where she helps doctors learn how to donate effectively, invest responsibly and spend thoughtfully to maximize the positive impact they want to have in the world while maximizing their own benefits.   She has established The Physician Philanthropy Impact Fund, offers two comprehensive online courses "The Physician Philanthropist Course" on developing a giving plan and "Impactful Investing for Doctors" to help doctors align their investment portfolios with their values, and shares her blog "Intentional Money for Doctors" on simple ways to start.

Listen to part 1 of the impactful interview on this week's episode of the Dare to Dream Physician Podcast!

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Transcript

Dr. Gray, Host 0:00

Welcome back to another episode of the dare to dream physician podcast. I am so excited to talk about the topic today with our guests. She is the amazing Dr. Resha Berg strum. She's a practicing radiologist in Northern California, specializing in women's imaging. She's a mom of three, a wife, an entrepreneur, and a philanthropist. Her husband is a winemaker and together they actually make several award-winning wines and the Santa Cruz mountains. Sandara and hem wines. And, I've seen some of these photos of the wineries where they harvest their grapes and it's just absolutely beautiful. The part that I really wanted to talk about today is that Resha is also the founder of the physician philanthropists, where she's helping doctors learn how to donate effectively, invest responsibly. And spend thoughtfully so that they can maximize the positive impact they want to have in the world while maximizing their own benefits. She has established the physician philanthropy impact fund to make it easy for doctors to advance their goals of healing and alleviating suffering globally in all its forms for people and the planet. I actually didn't know that. I have to ask you more about that. Okay. That's amazing. The physician philanthropist course is a comprehensive online course to develop an impactful giving plan. And her upcoming course impact investing for doctors will help doctors align their investment portfolios with their values without sacrificing returns. I'm so excited to talk about these things and also just to hear more of your story. so Dr. Resha, I've heard parts of your story before, but what I am so fascinated by is I think some people are maybe more naturally good at giving and others are, maybe not as good. And I would put myself in the latter category that I was not necessarily born a giver, but it's a muscle that I've tried to develop over time. and I have to say that, so when I do the uncomfortable thing of, donating and giving, I actually, I, I. Oh, it's almost like an immediate, benefit. Cause I feel that I get this, I don't know if it's a bus, it's like, it's a joy of giving, after you give, you finally understand this joy of giving. And I'm just fascinated that you have, dedicated all this time and energy to build the physician philanthropists. Cause obviously this is something that, means a lot to you. This conversation will be so good because I think a lot of physicians, are maybe like myself, who likes the idea of giving, but maybe doesn't know how to give. And we have. worry that maybe, if we give, what if money runs out and, shouldn't we be, do we need to get to a million, 2 million,$10 million, go for a weekend safely, give away some of our money. Welcome, welcome to the show. And, yeah. tell us a little bit more about how you started this process.

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 2:58

I've got to say, first of all, thank you so much for having me here. And two, before I tell a little bit about who I am, you made so many good points just now the first point is that it feels good to give, and there's actually a lot of medical studies related to giving there is I think it's called the givers high or something like that. I think it's yeah, no, there, there is. So people actually have a physiologic response to giving it feels good. And I think that's wonderful. And it's something that when you give, you probably do feel, I think there's also this sense that when you, you'll be able to give, when you get to a certain point, like it's not meaningful unless you give a lot. Or if or it's only, you can only do it once you have a certain amount of money. and that's something that. necessarily the case. Like you don't have to have a certain amount of money to give, and every little thing does make a difference. So if you can give$5 a month or if you can give$5,000 a month, you're still making positive impact. And that's where I have been trying to, help doctors understand that and realize that because part of realizing that and feeling the benefit for yourself is that joy of giving, but also the empowerment. so I think of what I do as, as part of financial literacy, we learn a lot of, in our financial literacy, which I feel like doctors are doing more and more these days. And I think it is wonderful. So I feel like I pick up where people leave off in terms of you work to get the money. And then I think about like now, what do you do out in the world with your money? Because doctor. In general. I think all of the ones that I know, went into medicine because they really care and they do want to do more outside of medicine, to help the world. And so that's where I come in. But, but one of the reasons I'm so excited to be here is the title of your podcast of dare to dream is that's what I did in starting this and starting this business is, it had been my husband's dream to start our own wine business. And I've been loving being a part of that. It is very exciting and fun, but it made me realize that I could also have my own dreams. And that's part of where this whole process started is like really thinking about what I cared about most and what I hope to. Put out in the world. And that's where this idea came from about, I wanted to maximize whatever good that I could do in the world. And I realized that my awesome tribe of doctors were this great big group of caring people. And, and we could really make a lot of positive impact.

Dr. Gray, Host 5:41

Mm. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And feel chills in my body as you talk about this. And I think the other part is, giving is letting go, because, and this is probably a common thing that a lot of doctors started with because, we often have a lot of loans. we start off becoming a physician, in a negative net worth space. And that was certainly the case for me. And so for the longest time, it's almost thinking about finances in the defensive, oh, how do I pay off this figure, multiple six figure debt. And, and Again, I think a lot the evolution of a physician is, switching our mindset, from like when we were medical students to residents, to, young attendings to our forever identity, to switch some of our mindset. including flipping the, okay, we're going from a defense financial life to, being more on the offensive. And I think, part of that is investing. I love that's part of your mission too, is to look at impactful investing. but the other part of it is, what's the longterm mission. Like what's the legacy we want to live in the world. I'm just going, I'm 41 years old now. So in 60 years I probably won't be here, but what's, what's, what is going to stay here that maybe I had, some, some part in, aside from, maybe just, raising my kids who hopefully will still be here then, what else? Like what's, are there other, bigger impact that maybe is not any, has any blood relation to me, but maybe something that just really care about so that's an amazing, an amazing thought, but I think a lot of us need some help to get there because it is it's. it's. Yeah. and most physicians are, we're exchanging time for money. So we have like hourly wages. So like when I, and I'm full disclosure, like I actually do exercise this muscle quite a bit. my husband and I, do donate quite a bit every year. And, but when I hit the submit button, part of me, pardon me, feels great. The other person's oh, I, that's like really like a day's worth of, sitting and seeing patients. And so there, I struggle with balancing the scars to the mindset and the abundance mindset there. so tell us a little bit more about how you got started. were you always the giver, were you just, naturally wealthy,

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 8:02

No,

Dr. Gray, Host 8:02

how this all started.

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 8:04

no. yes, I am not, I'm not some naturally wealthy kind of person I am. I would say I'm I'm middle of the road here, but, a couple of things really got me going here. When I think that you might be able to relate to is yes. The idea of having kids. when I donate part of what I I think about is the world I want my kids to live in and the things that I care about for them, going forward, cause it's a vulnerable position being a mom and thinking like someday, your kids are gonna be out in the world and what's it going to be like? And so part of the thing that kind of, that, that makes me care about so much wanting to do these things as this kind of mama bear kind of feeling like I want to do this to help my kids and their future. But I got it. I got started out in a couple of different things. one was by being on the receiving end of other people's charity. and that was when I was, when I was out of town when my baby was born at 32 weeks and I spent, I spent about five weeks living in the Ronald McDonald house, across the street while he was in the NICU for about six weeks. and that was a very vulnerable time for me and I really benefited from other people's generosity. And that was the first time I had been on the receiving end, of other people's generosity. And I just, it had a huge, personal impact on me. And that was 10 years ago and he's doing great. Thank goodness. but, I don't think these people that get didn't stop them from giving, knowing that, they didn't know. The woods. These weren't necessarily people that had millions of dollars before they started. And I know that I benefited greatly from their generosity. So that was kinda my first eyeopening thing. the other thing that I've been involved with for about the last, eight years, which has also been really eye-opening for me is being part of giving circles. And this is where I realized again, you also, you do not need to have millions of dollars to make an impact. If you have a group of people who care and are thoughtful with you, then together you can do. An impact, with everybody, giving less amount of money. So the first giving circle, I belong to, it was a really neat one. This was started by, I think, a couple of moms in Austin, Texas. and I think, oh, no, I'm sorry. It was like North Carolina. And, and it was called diamond for women. And what it started out with was a couple of moms who got together and decided that each month they would do a potluck and invite some friends. And then their friends would, instead of using the money to go out to dinner, they would pull their money and choose a place to donate their pooled money each month. And, and with a focus on. Basically women and children. And so it started out with one group of eight women in, I think it was North Carolina or whatever. And, it is now I think there are now something like 500 chapters out throughout the United States. there are grants that are made every month that are very impactful grants, helping women and children in the most dire of circumstances throughout the world and, where the money can really go very far and it's been, become this huge thing. And it just started with a small group of people giving small amounts of money. And even though it's big, it's still focuses on these small amount, small groups of people giving small amounts of money. and I love that, the power that gives people back to. Able to contribute to the things that they care about, but not being, billionaires who can buy a company because they want to and make those kinds of changes.

Dr. Gray, Host 11:42

Yeah, I love that. And it's something as simple as how much money would I spend on a meal. If I go out to a restaurant with a group of people, that's probably what, like 20 bucks per person. I know it's been going up, after the pandemic, somewhere around 20 or 30 bucks per person. And if, people just pulled that together and it love enough people do it. And there's also, I don't know what the term is like, we're talking about helping, women and children and other countries. There's a currency arbitrage, right? Where a dollar, it goes much further in another country. So that's even a bigger impact.

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 12:16

exactly. Exactly. So I love that impact. And as I've been more intentional about learning how to. Maximize my own impact how I can help people understand, the positive results of their impact. I've also, I've been learning about other things as well, not just donating, but now also investing in that. That's my next thing that I've been putting out there as well is, the idea that when we invest, we are voting with our money. We're showing the companies, that we want to support. This is the world that we want, that they're being formed by these giant companies and corporations. And I think that people have been getting better about, paying attention to what they're investing in and being able to, use that for good as well.

Dr. Gray, Host 13:05

Oh, I love that. Okay. We definitely have to talk about that, but I want to go back to the other point that you made before talking about giving circles, which is when you were at a point in your life where you had to be on the receiving end of people's giving. And that's where it really that's where you really felt it. I want to go back to that because I'm so fascinated by this. Tell us a little more where you a physician at the time, when you're on the receiving end. So you were, a physician, you were a radiologist and the thing with. with birth related pregnancy related complications is you don't know that it's coming. So it's like all of a sudden, you, it's not like you had time to plan oh, I think two, two weeks from now, I'm going to have this pregnancy complication and, pack your bags and go, it's everything happened so suddenly. And all of a sudden you were on the receiving end of, of this charity, the Ronald McDonald house. So tell us a little bit more about just walk us through the, like, when this happened. when you were on your way there and, while you were there,

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 13:59

Oh, absolutely. Yes. yeah. So D to give you the setting, I was already a practicing radiologist for many years, so I was, financially stable. Hadn't had to rely on other people's, support in any kind of way, in terms of, accepting other people's charitable donations or things like that. so it was came as a surprise. So what, what happened was I was traveling up to, out of the state with my husband and then my almost two year old daughter. And we were just going for three days for Christmas to visit my husband's family. and so we were, packed for three days. With the toddler and we go out for a Christmas, we go to dim sum for Christmas, and we were in one of those giant restaurants with, every table has 10 people and the big lazy Susan's Jew and my water broke. And I knew exactly what that meant. and there was no question. so thankfully my, my sister-in-law was able to she's a doctor up there as well. She was able to let me know where to go, where they had the, great NICU. and I went straight from the dim sum restaurant to labor and delivery. And. and I was able to stay, to hold on for two days while my son's lungs were, were able to mature a little bit more and then had to have a stat C-section.

Dr. Gray, Host 15:19

And how many weeks was he?

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 15:20

he was 32 weeks,

Dr. Gray, Host 15:22

Wow.

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 15:23

32 weeks, so yeah, eight, eight weeks early. so again, being a doctor, it's it's great to have an idea what's going on and then it's also can be really terrifying. so it was very, it was a very scary experience for me and not having any of the setup that I expected to, like when my water broke, I knew I wasn't going home. I knew that every plan that I had made, every idea that I had and

Dr. Gray, Host 15:47

Um,

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 15:48

my baby home was not going to happen. like I expected it to. So it was a scary

Dr. Gray, Host 15:53

away were you from your home

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 15:55

So that was in, I was in Portland, Oregon, and I was living in San Francisco at the time.

Dr. Gray, Host 16:01

Oh, wow.

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 16:02

Yeah. So it's like a 12 hour drive or a couple hours flight, so that was not going to happen.

Dr. Gray, Host 16:07

no, no.

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 16:09

thankfully he did well and he, he did spend about six weeks and then in the NICU, he had to stay there. but when I was discharged the week later and we were far away from where my husband's family was, so my husband stayed with his, with his side of the family, with our daughter and took care of her. And I was able to get a room across the street from the hospital, and that made all the difference for me. So I was able to go back to the hospital. every multiple times, every day and overnight I would go in and, and try to just spend as much time as I could with my baby while he was in the NICU. and I would not have been able to do that if I had been staying anywhere else, there was nowhere else. That was an, an option around where the hospital was. So it made a difference for me. I think it made a big difference for my baby being able to go in there and spend the time with him. Thank goodness. He was stable enough that I was able to hold him a lot. and I was very grateful for that. but then, being on the receiving end of charity, I also didn't have to, once I got that room in the Ronald McDonald house, I didn't have to worry about anything. So through him was decorated really nicely. I think people had gone in and volunteered and made all of the rooms a different theme. So it felt like being in a home and not in someplace clinical or scary or anything like that. So there was that kind of homey feeling. people had donated toiletries, like the travel size toiletries. So I didn't have to worry about that. There was. Country that had food that you could just go and take in a big kitchen that you could cook it in. and so I didn't have to worry about going to the grocery store between times. Cause I, and I was also, recovering from a C-section as well. and, and then there was even families who came in to cook dinner for the families who are staying there. So they had, this big kitchen and then they, several times a week, people would come in and bringing these big kind of, buffet dinners where anybody who was staying there could go and eat and not have to worry about it. So when you're worrying about, your tiny baby in the NICU to not have to worry about all of those other things and have other people take care of you, that was, it was very much the first time I had been on the receiving end of anything like that. And it really, it made all the difference.

Dr. Gray, Host 18:36

Um, so when you were I'm just trying to imagine, when you first got your room at the Ronald McDonald house, you were probably, relieved, okay, there's, there's now I know what to expect and how long were you there for,

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 18:50

I was there for five weeks. I think it was about five weeks. And so basically, if they have a room available, when you're discharged, you can just go stay there and there is not a limit. so

Dr. Gray, Host 19:02

depends on how the, whoever is in the hospital is

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 19:06

exactly, as long as you're, as long as your child or baby is in the hospital, you can stay there. And that was incredible to be able to do that.

Dr. Gray, Host 19:15

so what kind of thoughts went through your mind, especially throughout your stay, after silver initially you're like probably just relief that you were there, what else as the weeks pass by. Cause that's a pretty long period of time.

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 19:28

It was a long period of time, but I've got to say at this point, it's a bit of a blur. There was, there was a usual early mom sleep deprivation. but, and just the constant worry. again, there's a vulnerability when you're, when your child is in the hospital, that, it's just terrifying. Every time I would go in, I wouldn't know what to expect or what to think. so having this little sanctuary to be able to, to be able to settle into and. So many of my other concerns be taken care of, allowed me to and do everything I could otherwise, and just not have that, that the additional worries about everything else that I might have been worried about. And, there was even, a playroom there so that, when, when you have the, other members of the family. So when my daughter would come to visit, I would be able to also spend some good time with her and my husband. and she had a fun place to play. And there were just, there was tons of toys and it was very cheerfully decorated. So it was very family friendly that way. And so it gave me that as well. Yeah, that was another thing that I didn't have to worry about. Cause there was so much fun stuff for her that, I didn't have to worry about is she going to get bored as shit I wanted her to feel, like she had attention as well.

Dr. Gray, Host 20:53

Yeah, that's amazing. I can totally relate to what you're saying. So I haven't had to use the Ronald McDonald house, but, when my second son was born. we had just gone home from the hospital for about, maybe like a few days. He was a week old and this was February in Vermont. And it was, negative temperatures outside and we actually had a house fire. My mom was visiting. So it was my husband and my four year old and my newborn and, there was smoke coming out of the wall. So we were like, oh, we have to get out of the house. And it was the middle of the night. So we did, and actually the house was okay at first. They actually said, oh, well, if you want to go sleep in there, you can. But the house smells like smoke. So we're just going to phone a friend and stay over at her friend. So we brought some bags of stuff that we were going to just use overnight. And then we went to a friend's house overnight. And then actually the next day, when my husband went back to the house, it was gone. It had been burned to the ground. So I know it's, it's, it's, it's crazy. But the, and so I was actually a fellow then, but. I have to say, when something like that happens, you all of a sudden, just like you, we were people who, if anything, we were people who would donate and give, we weren't necessarily on the receiving end of anything. But when something like that happens, you have totally no control. Like all of a sudden we didn't have a house. Unfortunately we still have vehicles. but everything else, we didn't have anything in the house anymore. And so it was so amazing that, Even when my husband got to the scene, the fire department actually had gotten there before we did. Cause the house was a little bit further in the woods. So You couldn't easily see it from the road. By the time someone from the road saw that there was something going on in the fire. So a bunch of the fire trucks went, it was, the house was already beyond salvageable, but they were there. And they had called the red cross actually. And so when my husband, he was traumatized, cause he, he saw the house was gone and And there were these relief workers were there and, they gave him, but for the whole family, some sort of, it's like a gift card. Where you can buy things with. And it was so amazing. I was just like, oh, we didn't even call anybody for help. And here they are in the, just showed up and or somebody called them and they showed up. There so many feelings that come when something bad happens. Our house was insured. I didn't know anything about insurance. So I'm like, what if they don't pay for it? away? I don't know. Like I haven't looked at the policy. And so they're just all of these things that kind of went through my mind. Having someone that just hands you, I don't remember. They actually was a, quite a bit of money. I want to say it was like several hundred dollars at least, where they're like, okay, you have to buy some toiletries, here it is. And it's, so it was so amazing and it was just so amazing to see people. rally behind us, they would give us toys, give the, give our kids clothes. And some of it was new. Some of them were hand me downs, which I didn't mind, but some of it was like brand new stuff. And I have to say one of the things that was the most touching was. Somebody at our church. the church had helped us in many ways, but somebody gave us, cash. You could see it was like$20 bills and it was anonymous and it was a lot of money. It was over a thousand dollars, but it was like, 1,100. It was like they're saving money. You could tell they were saving for something. And then they just gave it to us. And they just wrote this note, you need this more than I do. Or something amazing. And I was don't know who they were like, I'll never know, but it's just, it's so amazing when you're on the receiving end, especially when you're at a time in need in your life. And I think for us, for most of us doctors, we're usually in a sort of position where we don't have. Received we, we could choose to give, but we don't necessarily feel that we're in need, like even as a patient, right? Like we're used to taking care of patients. So when we become a patient at the hospital, like that's also really eyeopening because I'm like, wow, someone's pushing my stretcher. Usually I'm the one who's, doing all of this. And I just get this appreciation of being on the receiving end of someone's service act of service or someone's, act of benevolence.

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 24:52

Yes. Yes, it is. it's an incredible, it's an incredible feeling. it's, I think it's one of those. Things that really makes me feel hopeful in the world is how much good there is out there and how much people really do want to help. And you're absolutely right. It is. it's not necessarily something we expect as physicians to expect to do that, but you never know, there's, the, these are things that, all kinds of things happen, and that are unexpected and anybody could find themselves needing help at any point.

Dr. Gray, Host 25:26

And I would say that the amazing thing, having been on the receiving end of of charity is that, there really wasn't a correlation between, what that person's means was and how much they get. And it always surprised me, oftentimes it was the people that have the least means where I'm like, wow, you're giving so much. and I think that's exactly what you're saying is that we as physicians, we're in a position to give and we don't, and yeah, we have burdens, we have loans, we have maybe, job insecurity and all those things, but there, even whatever we can give I think is going to be enough, as a start for sure. anything that we can start with is going to be enough. And, and that's the, and it is really a muscle that isn't necessarily linked to, what's in our bank accounts and what's in our net worth. It's more of a mindset and it's more of a, it's more of a habit.

Dr. Recha Bergstrom, Guest 26:20

Yeah, it is. And actually, I read a really interesting study that was a few years back, that there's actually this bi-modal distribution of how much people give. And it turns out that people who make less than$50,000 a year, and the people who make more than$10 million a year are the ones who have the highest percentage of their income that they donate to charity and everyone in between, I think between the$50,000 per year and the$10 million per year, which I think probably a lot of doctors get or somewhere in that, are give less than those two groups. And I thought that was so fascinating, that it doesn't matter. And I'm sure that the people who give, the less than$50,000. earners, what, when they give, they probably don't think I'm not giving it enough. they're giving, they're making an impact. And I feel that, that was a, one of another, one of those numbers that opened my eyes like, wow. it really does not matter how much you make, you probably have something that you can contribute.

Dr. Gray, Host 27:28

that marks the end of part, one of this inspirational interview with Dr. RHA Bergstrom of the physician philanthropist. I can't wait to share part two of this interview with you. Stay tuned and I'll see you the next episode.